Command Points

[norngahl]

Did anyone already use the special formations for gaining command points?

 

I mean, we can achieve a bataillon pretty easy.. 6x 10 cultists and 3x a single chaos brute for distraction is easily brought onto the table.. 2x cheap hq and 3x elite / heavy support are the first go to choices anyway. I mean, you can get it for say 1500 and still have a wooping 1000 points left for lord of war, flyers, transports and or/upgrading from average to good.

 

Rerolls are nice, but spending two command points to switch the Combat phase.. i mean, with chainaxe berzerkers.. that ain't funny. And a Bataillon gives you 9 command points.

 

Is it all just a nice buff or can you make good use of it? Not sure yet.

[The Traitor]

I have experimented a bit with this and, at least for me, who doesn't like cultists a lot, brigade (which is the 9CP detachment I beleive, not bataillon) isn't worth it. I would almost never pay for so many things and it limits what you can take a lot, while sentencing you to an MSU army style and going second (with a minimum of 17 units). I do think, although, that it is worth paying for a couple of cultists/ csm/ cult units more to get a bataillon detachmrnt (the 3CP one), as having some extra CP is great and the more I play the less I end a battle with any left. So I always try to turn my vanguard, outrider or spearhead detachments into bataillons, cultists are pretty cheap and good for bubblewrap, and some cult units, like NM, are choices I would be taking anywaya.

[Commissar K.]

Is it all just a nice buff or can you make good use of it? Not sure yet.

Both, but it boils down to personal preforance. The thing with Chaos is is that we have a ton of great HQ, great Troops, decent Elites and good to decent Heavies. So with this in mind army builds should offcourse fit what you want to play first but re-rolls are without doubt extremely useful. It's very easy to read the mathhammer that is filling the board and most of it seems to bypass any optional re-roll result (because yes, it makes your average dice roll extremely hard to predict).

 

As a result I think the easiest Detachments at up to 2K for us to use are:

- Battalion Detachment (Berzerkers, Rubrics, Noise and Plague are only one Keyword away from being Troops for everybody)

- Spearhead Detachment (a reason to not use Legion Keyword to your advantage for the above)

- Supreme Command Detachment (if you have 3+ Bloodthirsters you might aswell want to use them)

 

And then offcourse if you want to go heavy on the Knights or Heldrakes you can do so aswell but we have very few options in that window with just the Index so I think it might bore you.

 

All in all key part is that you should play what you want to. This edition is very well internally balanced. Chaos is combined arms so there isn't any easy to go strategy or Detachment to pick that is the must pick because of design limits. For example Orks and Nids and AM are much more limited in their tactical variance.

 

 

[Brother Aiwass]

 

Is it all just a nice buff or can you make good use of it? Not sure yet.

It's very easy to read the mathhammer that is filling the board and most of it seems to bypass any optional re-roll result (because yes, it makes your average dice roll extremely hard to predict).

 

Dakkafiend vs GEQ

 

Naked: 2,777777778 kills

Re-rolling 1's to hit: 3,240740741 kills

Full re-roll: 4,166666667 kills

 

For example Orks and Nids and AM are much more limited in their tactical variance.

How so? I don't understand why you're saying that. Those armies are way more than horde spam, specially the AM if we take in account that what you preach for <Chaos>, they can do better with <Imperium>.

 

You also seem to miss the gold that is the FW chaos index, here in regard of fliers or LoW.

 

OP: If you have the models and want to try, go for it, but I wouldn't buy the models just to do that.

 

Cheers!

[Commissar K.]

 

 

For example Orks and Nids and AM are much more limited in their tactical variance.

How so? I don't understand why you're saying that. Those armies are way more than horde spam, specially the AM if we take in account that what you preach for <Chaos>, they can do better with <Imperium>.

 

You also seem to miss the gold that is the FW chaos index, here in regard of fliers or LoW.

 

 

You will understand if you give the several Indexes more time and/or another couple of reads. All armies within 8th have been designed with a set limitation. They have a pros and cons. Logically players for a matched game will want to gravitate towards the cons they have. This includes understanding that not every army is alike, not every army can preform the same window of tactics and when you want to have a strong army you have to be aware of what build design is usefull against what. So for your vague remark regarding AM, Chaos out-melees them by a lot. Melee AM builds are a joke to Chaos. Luckily most AM players are aware of that. Likewise I hope to see Chaos players understand that they are neither Ork or Space Marine but always something in between. Accept combined arms and use it to your profit or demise, the later is easier to archive.

 

Forgeworld designs in many cases an exact repeat of what is technically available in the Index allready. There are several pieces who have a slightly advantaged cost for a slightly disadvantaged tactical demension. What I see is that generally speaking player fan-boy on the REALLY BIG STUFF in Forgeworld's Indexes. Really big stuff can get you kills and can't get you objectives. You win with that in relation to how your local meta wants to play. A game that prolongs without objectives though boils down to a FW cash game that I can assure you is very unhealthy for your local (hopefully new) meta development.

 

So in regards to build and command points, play as you like, but more importantly, know what your meta likes to play.

 

Cheers,

Edited June 30, 2017 by Commissar K.

[Brother Aiwass]

 

 

 

For example Orks and Nids and AM are much more limited in their tactical variance.

How so? I don't understand why you're saying that. Those armies are way more than horde spam, specially the AM if we take in account that what you preach for <Chaos>, they can do better with <Imperium>.

 

You also seem to miss the gold that is the FW chaos index, here in regard of fliers or LoW.

 

 

You will understand if you give the several Indexes more time and/or another couple of reads. All armies within 8th have been designed with a set limitation. They have a pros and cons. Logically players for a matched game will want to gravitate towards the cons they have. This includes understanding that not every army is alike, not every army can preform the same window of tactics and when you want to have a strong army you have to be aware of what build design is usefull against what. So for your vague remark regarding AM, Chaos out-melees them by a lot. Melee AM builds are a joke to Chaos. Luckily most AM players are aware of that. Likewise I hope to see Chaos players understand that they are neither Ork or Space Marine but always something in between. Accept combined arms and use it to your profit or demise, the later is easier to archive.

 

Forgeworld designs in many cases an exact repeat of what is technically available in the Index allready. There are several pieces who have a slightly advantaged cost for a slightly disadvantaged tactical demension. What I see is that generally speaking player fan-boy on the REALLY BIG STUFF in Forgeworld's Indexes. Really big stuff can get you kills and can't get you objectives. You win with that in relation to how your local meta wants to play. A game that prolongs without objectives though boils down to a FW cash game that I can assure you is very unhealthy for your local (hopefully new) meta development.

 

So in regards to build and command points, play as you like, but more importantly, know what your meta likes to play.

 

Cheers,

 

Maybe you need to give more time or re-read the FW indexes ;)

 

They're not exact repeat by the most part neither in the chaos index nor in the xenos ones at least, which are the ones I know better. May I ask you when in the GW index do see something in the lines of a Leviathan dread, a Typhon siege tank, a Xiphon interceptor, a Rapier battery or a Decimator? How different is player fan-boy-ism from Big Stuff FW to Big Stuff GW in regards of LoW? You don't need "really big stuff" that let's you kill something, you can also kill something with small stuff :)

 

Your advice regarding fliers is just "heldrake" ignoring the FW index, which besides the stormbird/thunderhawk, doesn't fit in the "big stuff" niche. Hell talons/blades, storm eagles and xiphons are fairly small both model and pointswise compared to the big stuff. You can get a Xiphon for ~30 points more than a laspred and it comes with 2 twin lascannons, a missile launcher that can deal MW, high mobility and a nice -1 to hit, having no penalties itself while moving and firing. So if you want to spend like 500 points in an airwing to fill your brigade, 2 xiphons are a nice way to complement your AT options.

 

There is no narrative anymore (wink, wink), don't hinder yourself by not using the FW index (nudge, nudge)!

 

Cheers :P

[Commissar K.]

 

 

 

 

For example Orks and Nids and AM are much more limited in their tactical variance.

How so? I don't understand why you're saying that. Those armies are way more than horde spam, specially the AM if we take in account that what you preach for <Chaos>, they can do better with <Imperium>.

 

You also seem to miss the gold that is the FW chaos index, here in regard of fliers or LoW.

 

 

You will understand if you give the several Indexes more time and/or another couple of reads. All armies within 8th have been designed with a set limitation. They have a pros and cons. Logically players for a matched game will want to gravitate towards the cons they have. This includes understanding that not every army is alike, not every army can preform the same window of tactics and when you want to have a strong army you have to be aware of what build design is usefull against what. So for your vague remark regarding AM, Chaos out-melees them by a lot. Melee AM builds are a joke to Chaos. Luckily most AM players are aware of that. Likewise I hope to see Chaos players understand that they are neither Ork or Space Marine but always something in between. Accept combined arms and use it to your profit or demise, the later is easier to archive.

 

Forgeworld designs in many cases an exact repeat of what is technically available in the Index allready. There are several pieces who have a slightly advantaged cost for a slightly disadvantaged tactical demension. What I see is that generally speaking player fan-boy on the REALLY BIG STUFF in Forgeworld's Indexes. Really big stuff can get you kills and can't get you objectives. You win with that in relation to how your local meta wants to play. A game that prolongs without objectives though boils down to a FW cash game that I can assure you is very unhealthy for your local (hopefully new) meta development.

 

So in regards to build and command points, play as you like, but more importantly, know what your meta likes to play.

 

Cheers,

 

Maybe you need to give more time or re-read the FW indexes

 

They're not exact repeat by the most part neither in the chaos index nor in the xenos ones at least, which are the ones I know better. May I ask you when in the GW index do see something in the lines of a Leviathan dread, a Typhon siege tank, a Xiphon interceptor, a Rapier battery or a Decimator? How different is player fan-boy-ism from Big Stuff FW to Big Stuff GW in regards of LoW? You don't need "really big stuff" that let's you kill something, you can also kill something with small stuff

 

Your advice regarding fliers is just "heldrake" ignoring the FW index, which besides the stormbird/thunderhawk, doesn't fit in the "big stuff" niche. Hell talons/blades, storm eagles and xiphons are fairly small both model and pointswise compared to the big stuff. You can get a Xiphon for ~30 points more than a laspred and it comes with 2 twin lascannons, a missile launcher that can deal MW, high mobility and a nice -1 to hit, having no penalties itself while moving and firing. So if you want to spend like 500 points in an airwing to fill your brigade, 2 xiphons are a nice way to complement your AT options.

 

There is no narrative anymore (wink, wink), don't hinder yourself by not using the FW index (nudge, nudge)!

 

Cheers

 

Very little reason to do so. Most of which is a replica of what we can do for better or worse. It's cool to have the variance in models sure, if that's all you are looking for.

 

Leviathan dread, a Typhon siege tank, a Xiphon interceptor, a Rapier battery or a Decimator are effectively an alternative for Land Raider, Khorne Lord of Skulls, Helldrake or Obliterator. If one would be to refuse those the FW options are fun alternatives to what we have. As before, if all your looking for is more, then your mind will never be focused gaining a good tactical knowledge about where the game currently stands.

 

It's up to yourself to dismiss the Heldrake's sheer simple and effective design. I care very little for just auto-cannons if I'm capable to hold up the same targets in melee with the same ease. 

 

I don't worry about the extreme lack of narrative designs, maby you do. All anyone has to do to exclude himself in options again is to pick up the comming Codexi but considering you like the FW designs so much I don't think that would make you happy either.

[Brother Aiwass]

       

[Commissar K.]

       

All fear the spicey conquest of Legion Salsa Balls.