Raptor Primaris conundrum

[Boyadventurer]

So with 8th, I wanted to rock a new army of pure Primaris marines. What better chapter to go with than the Raptors! Great. I got an awesome colour scheme for them and got about half the box painted up and looking great and ordered some Raptors transfers (with some hefty shipping). All geared up to figure out an awesome conversion for Lias who's gonna look heroic as hell all tall with the new fancy bolters (he's primaris size because special characters are taller, duh).

Then the rules for Lias drops and I'm reading line by line like

 

"Awesome!

Awesome!

Awesome!

... ohhhh no..."

Master of Ambush just killed it! It's a great rule for sure, but NO Primaris? I don't know what to do now and my paint table has been dead since the weekend. I could throw in a couple Sternguard or plasma command squads, sure, but my whole vision for this army is no more mini marines (I redid my whole IF army with the legs from the Deathwatch kit, that's how much I hate my marines looking eye to eye at my guard). If Lias was a little cheaper, I'd even consider just not using that rule at all (not using Lias is obviously not an option since that bolter is so dope!), but looking at other characters, I think there's a pretty big point investment in that power.

I just can't decide on how to proceed. The options as I see them are:

1) Just scrap the idea of an all Primaris Raptors all together
2) Kitbash some sternguard/command squad/whatever PA marines with a mix of primaris and PA pieces, so they're distinct but the same size. Dunno if this is going to cause issues playing outside my normal gaming group though.

3) Forget Raptors all together and go with something that DOES play with Primaris well (Pedro/CF likely).

 

Any suggestions are appreciated. Anyone else had plans like this and have to figure something else out? I've already spent over a month sitting around not getting anything done with the hobby while waiting for 8th, and now I'm just sitting around all over again. I'm pretty disheartened right now.

Edited June 29, 2017 by Boyadventurer

[WAR]

Raptors look cool and all your time and money should not go to waste. Lias is a great model but the Primaris thing sucks. I went IF with my primaris marines cause I want an IF Army. I would go sternguard for his ambush teams. Right now as it sits Primaris have a few has, 2 elites (redemptor dread & ancient) 1 troop, 2 fast (reivers & inceptors), 2 heavies (aggressors & hellblasters) and an aircraft (overlord). So elites or troops are the place to add more models/ squads, imho

[Mr. Poe]

I don't have the rules in front of me...does his +1 to movement, charging and advancing benefit primaries marines? If so I'd go for it man...a few points of worth the cool factor imo. Edited June 29, 2017 by Mr. Poe

[Race Bannon]

If you want to do Raptors, then don't let these guys hold you back (or anything else, frankly). You don't have to use them anyway. ^_^. But if the desire is there, then have them fit into the army, not the other way around.

 

Very humbly.

 

The point is, play Raptors Chapter :tu:

[Hellrender]

If you are playing pure Primaris, convert a Primaris Lias Issodon :)

Then beg your local group to allow Primaris models into his rules. At that point you have a strong theme, and i would definetly allow it. 

 

Whatever happens though, if you like raptors, paint them as raptors. You can always either take a unit of sternguard, or count as Lias with some Primaris HQ rules (when they get released in full).

 

Good luck

[The Yak]

Option 3) is a serious no no. You sound pretty hyped to be a Raptor General so don't give in.

 

Could you use the Primaris marines as true scale Raptors? Obviously they wont have the rules but you would have a kick ass looking big marine army and still alow for The Grim to lead them.

[Kua]

Best idea so far!

 

Example true scale marine can be found here.

Fluff-wise, the entire Primaris story is full of bad ideas anyway, I wouldn’t touch them for this sole reason.

[ShinyRhino]

Option 4 would be to just play with a Primaris Captain or the upcoming Primaris Librarian and not fixate so much on one named character.

Primaris Reivers will be out soon, and I guarantee they won't play with Issodon either. There are ten other Captains in the Raptor chain of command, if not more now that Primaris Marines have v been added to the chapter.

[Boyadventurer]

Thanks for all the responses guys! I was busy getting decimated in Blood Bowl yesterday, so I was in a REALLY foul mood about everything afterwards, hah.

 

I'm still feeling a little dismayed about the whole thing, but not as bad as before now. Doghouse's Mk7 primaris look promising. I could definitely do stern/command squad/whatever like that if that's the route I'm gonna go. Keep them MK7 from the waist up and maybe add some lioncloths and fancy shoulderpads to keep that classic sternguard look to them.

 

I'm still going to do a Crimson Fist test paint, just to satisfy my curiosity. I do have about 40 Fist shoulderpads still stockpiled from the DW kit handy, so I feel a little guilty about not using them, haha. That boltstorm gauntlet would make an awesome Dorn's Arrow too... just sayin.

 

Doing Raptors without ever using Lias just seems wrong through! Maybe we'll get a cool relic bolter when the codex drops and I won't lament Lias so much. Damn that gun is just so sexy, haha.

[WAR]

I don't run lias in my 10th company :)

[Kua]

Doghouse's Mk7 primaris look promising. I could definitely do stern/command squad/whatever like that if that's the route I'm gonna go.

 

It’s a true scale Space Marine with Mk-7 armour, not a Primaris Marine. ;)

It would be played as a regular SM (only 1 W etc.), but look better.

Also, there is no such thing as sternguard primaris yet, thankfully.

[Race Bannon]

Raptors - Lias = not right, I do agree.  I think we're spoiled there though because he has always been that good since he was introduced.  I've advocated such "needs" are not necessary, but Lias seems immune from the suggestion.  I mean, you almost have to go out of your way not to use him.

[WAR]

I do go out my way to not use him but his rules are cool. I may use him this edition tho

[Inquisitor Eisenhorn]

Here's another option that is predicated on your play-group's view of things, but the way I have solved this is just saying "hey guess what, Lias DOES impact Primaris, because I say so."

 

Won't work for everyone, but I just wanted to call out that the Inquisition won't descent upon your group if you all agree to be cool about it.

 

On a separate editorial note, I appreciate GW keeping standard marines viable and supported rules-wise, but the whole Lias thing really smarts.

[Boyadventurer]

You guys! The new primaris captain mini (that I wanted to use for Lias anyway) comes with a mastercrafter stalker boltun. If that's not effing Raptors I don't know what is!

 

I feel good now :D

[Noserenda]

Tbh the master of Ambush thing is so such a small part of his rules/points itd be fine just using it for him? Maybe some scouts or other characters like Apothecaries and techmarines that you could also Primaris up? 

[Nusquam]

I felt the same sigh of disappointment for the Primaris when reading Issodons rules. Considering the rumors of the new primaris models I want them but they have no support other than <Chapter> related buffs and rerolls. No transports or even being able to combo with their own Chapter Master makes no sense.

 

I keep trying to make lists but only Inceptors, which inherently have M10" and deep strike, seem to be working out. I want to use Hellblasters so badly. Their 30" range helps but I want more options other than footslogging or the eventual demi raider transport.

[MoK]

Have FW updated Raptors rules? I hadn't noticed.

[Mr. Poe]

Nothing yet for chapter tactics. I have a feeling it's going to be a while. 

[Extropian]

Don't sweat it. It appears there is a good chance the Raptors can run he Raven Guard tactics as the Codex has the same successor rule as the Index. So you can use e Stratagem Strike From The Shadows instead for your Primaris.

 

Probably. I don't have a book yet, this is what I have been told.

[Sharrowkyn]

I agree with Extropian.

 

Run your Raptor Prmaris with Raven Guard CT and use Strike from the Shadows (which is pretty much a more flexible version of Lias's Master of Ambush ability).

 

Just use Vanguard Vets or Devastors etc to ambush with Lias!

[Extropian]

I'm playing with the idea of a Raptors army based around a "blocking force" made up of Tarantulas and armour, and am ambush force of infantry.

 

The general story behind it would be that he blocking units have been dropped into the path of the enemy advance, and will provide an anvil for the ambushing hammer.

[SkimaskMohawk]

Just going to put in that I used a Lias list today while I'm waiting for the book to drop. 3 plasma command squads do a crazy amount of damage on the drop, and are way cheaper than their primaris counterparts.

 

Plus He-who-is-don doesn't let terminators or centurions come with either; it's a size factor, not arbitrary primaris hate

[SanguinaryGuardsman]

I think you should listen to brother Extrapain Extropian.  Wait for the codex/faqs and try to use RG tactics.  You can have sneaky invisible/scouting primaris with deepstriking jump units.  And some buggery from Reivers.  All under the puke glorious green Raptor colours.

[Nusquam]

I would wager that Raptors will use RG CTs and the Stratagem with a different relic and WLT like CF is to IF. 8e RG tactics are basically 6e Raptors tactics combined with Issodons old infiltrate rule. Issodons current ability just helps with the duration of the game instead of one decisive alpha strike.

 

Now I get to infiltrate my hellblasters so I'm happy.