Militarium Tempestus wants you!

[Lemondish]

Seeing a lot of these MT lists include small Scion squads. Is there a reason why they're preferred over the 10 man squads? I'm pretty new, but I like the idea of larger, more resilient squads that keep pace with special weapon options.

 

Also seeing a lot of Command Squads with 4 heavies instead of the support pieces like medic or the standard. I'm not convinced the standard is worth it myself, but I guess if you aren't running with a Commissar it might be beneficial? I'd imagine a 10 man squad could also benefit from medic support much more readily than a 5 man squad could. 

[Ranwulf]

I prefer bigger squads. Not only they don't fill up what you can bring from reserve(because you need to have 1 in the table for one in reserve), but also each order from your tempestor prime is worth more to the squad. One order to a small squad doesnt have the same value to an order to a big unit. 

 

Ran

[zero88]

Also, a big squad is perfect for an armor save buff from a psyker. What scarier than 9 overcharged plasma shots for your opponent? When they come from a 3+ save squad (or even 2+ if in cover)

[Tallarn Commander]

I've been using 2 to 3 deep-striking squads of 10 to great effect. They van drop down and open up a second front anywhere on the battlefield.

 

But to each their own, those people who use smaller squads might have other reasons (saving on points, smaller footprint, etc).

[littlbitz]

I've been using 10 man squads to good effect,

The Taurox Prime is downright nasty, especially in numbers.

Though the new army I'm building doesn't have any.

At 2000 I'm currently building

2 co commanders

2 Tempestor Primes

4x 10 man Scion Squads

4x plasma, 4xmelta, 4x plasma, 4x volley

5x 10 man vets with

3x melts, 3x melts, 3x melts, 3x plasma, 3x grenadelauncher

These guys are mounted in 5x Valkyries...

I'm thinking it'll be a fun list to play

[ThomasEll]

I think that it really sucks that they have have made the command squads effectively a 2 slot unit, but it does prevent a lot of silliness.

[Withershadow]

What are people putting in their Taurox Primes?  I assume the Scions are being dropped, so are the transports just run empty?

[Ranwulf]

What are people putting in their Taurox Primes?  I assume the Scions are being dropped, so are the transports just run empty?

They are good weapon plataforms just for that. In fact, staying still gives makes their shooting even better, instead of driving them around. 

 

Ran

[slowclinic]

I'm trying out something different with my Scions. Having already got the Plasma Command and multiple deep striking Melta and HSVG squads, I've decided to try out an all Flamer command squad riding around in a Taurox Prime (Gatling Cannon and HSVGs) as an infantry killing unit. Will be running with a Tempestor for orders, but is there any other unit/model/character that would buff them a little more?

[Lemondish]

I'm trying out something different with my Scions. Having already got the Plasma Command and multiple deep striking Melta and HSVG squads, I've decided to try out an all Flamer command squad riding around in a Taurox Prime (Gatling Cannon and HSVGs) as an infantry killing unit. Will be running with a Tempestor for orders, but is there any other unit/model/character that would buff them a little more?

 

On paper it almost seems a waste of that 3+ bs, but let us know how it works in action. 

[WarriorFish]

I agree, flamers had some use in a pure Stormie force for crowd control but now they're a little less reliable you might be better off making use of that BS3+ especially as you can't strike in within range. Give it a go and let us know how it performs though.

[dakkamasta]

I tried 2x 10 man units of scions today with a tempestor prime against Blood Angels. I had one squad with 4 plasma dropping in the backfield with the prime and a 4 melta squad who got dropped off mid-field on the 1st turn from a Vendetta. With vox's I managed to get the melta squad just within 18" for orders and they destroyed a razorback each in one volley and 5 death company between a razorback explosion and hot-shot lasgun fire. I was quite happy with that result as even though they got charged the next turn, they roughly killed their points worth and still distracted a few nasty assault units away from my front line.

I wouldn't run 5 man squads unless I wasn't planning to run any Tempestor Primes, in which case I would give them 2 meltas and drop them as a suicide unit. If you take a Prime there is no reason to not take two 10 man squads to maximise the effectiveness of his orders.

 

[Ranwulf]

I tried 2x 10 man units of scions today with a tempestor prime against Blood Angels. I had one squad with 4 plasma dropping in the backfield with the prime and a 4 melta squad who got dropped off mid-field on the 1st turn from a Vendetta. With vox's I managed to get the melta squad just within 18" for orders and they destroyed a razorback each in one volley and 5 death company between a razorback explosion and hot-shot lasgun fire. I was quite happy with that result as even though they got charged the next turn, they roughly killed their points worth and still distracted a few nasty assault units away from my front line.

 

I wouldn't run 5 man squads unless I wasn't planning to run any Tempestor Primes, in which case I would give them 2 meltas and drop them as a suicide unit. If you take a Prime there is no reason to not take two 10 man squads to maximise the effectiveness of his orders.

 

 

And as you said, giving a Vox Caster give you far more flexibility to how you deploy and use orders.

 

Ran

[slowclinic]

Already glued them, I'm afraid. I realised that since my Armoured Fist style Veterans had gone, I had no flamers in the army at all (they were on the Chimeras). I'm running the command squad in a Gatling/HSVG Taurox with a Prime thrown in for orders - the group of units will hurt some lighter infantry. Also, there's the aesthetic reason, which is a big one for me... Possibly more so than the actual game play. The models just look really cool, and the idea of them strutting out to clear remaining infantry off of an objective is just too attractive to me.

 

I'll be sure to report back on how they work out. Lord knows I don't need any more plasma or melta in my collection, and the local meta can be somewhat infantry heavy ('Nids, Orks, Guard).

[dakkamasta]

Ranwulf those were my thoughts exactly when writing the list. I knew that there were many factors that could force my scions to be separated so the vox's were there as an insurance policy and it worked out perfectly :)

 

On a side note, has anyone considered running a squad with just their lasguns and use FRFSRF? 36 hot-shot lasgun shots plus a pistol coming out of a 10 man squad sounds like it would munch infantry and it's cheap as chips too. Not sure how effective it would be in practice though.

 

*Edit* I realise that this method would need a pair of valks/vendettas to work due to the 9" rapid fire range.

Edited July 11, 2017 by dakkamasta

[slowclinic]

Ranwulf those were my thoughts exactly when writing the list. I knew that there were many factors that could force my scions to be separated so the vox's were there as an insurance policy and it worked out perfectly

 

On a side note, has anyone considered running a squad with just their lasguns and use FRFSRF? 36 hot-shot lasgun shots plus a pistol coming out of a 10 man squad sounds like it would munch infantry and it's cheap as chips too. Not sure how effective it would be in practice though.

 

*Edit* I realise that this method would need a pair of valks/vendettas to work due to the 9" rapid fire range.

 

Something me and a fellow Guard player have been discussing is whether or not the 9" restriction is still in effect when coming out of a flyer. He says no, I say yes, but in my misguided opinion, I don't think the rule is spelled out clearly. Sorry to hijack the thread, but it's a question I feel is a little dumb to ask anywhere and we're in context here!

 

As for running pure HSLG squads, I do believe it's effective if in a Scion force, but I think the addition of at least two HSVGs would be beneficial in giving a more rounded offensive output.

[dakkamasta]

The rule for dropping guys of out of a Valk/Vendetta is that they must be set up more than 9" away, but unlike other deep strike equivalents, it specifically says that they disembark out of the vendetta.  This means when they get out they have to be 9" away, but then they are allowed their 6" move. According to the rules that's how it works. However I can definitely see how people could interpret it differently, and probably because it seems to be the only transport in the game that can do this.

[slowclinic]

The rule for dropping guys of out of a Valk/Vendetta is that they must be set up more than 9" away, but unlike other deep strike equivalents, it specifically says that they disembark out of the vendetta.  This means when they get out they have to be 9" away, but then they are allowed their 6" move. According to the rules that's how it works. However I can definitely see how people could interpret it differently, and probably because it seems to be the only transport in the game that can do this.

 

That makes sense, and definitely explains the confusion going on. I don't have the book to hand right now, but I'll run it by at GW to get a general consensus. Given that Scions have received some what of a dampening with Command Squads in the FAQ (I have no arguments, they are insane), this might have simply been something overlooked. I don't know...

[Withershadow]

The 9" restriction applies when they disembark, but nothing about what they can do after.  Nothing stops a disembarked unit from then moving within 3" of the enemy and unloading with whatever.

 

Normally the drive by of old does not work because you disembark at the beginning of the movement phase.  Unless they add a clause that a unit that disembarked from a Valkyrie/Vendetta can no longer move afterwards, you get one of the few instances of violating that 9" barrier.  I think Tyranids have a monster that can get closer too.

[Lemondish]

The 9" restriction applies when they disembark, but nothing about what they can do after. Nothing stops a disembarked unit from then moving within 3" of the enemy and unloading with whatever.

 

Normally the drive by of old does not work because you disembark at the beginning of the movement phase. Unless they add a clause that a unit that disembarked from a Valkyrie/Vendetta can no longer move afterwards, you get one of the few instances of violating that 9" barrier. I think Tyranids have a monster that can get closer too.

Deathleapers can set up within 6'' of an enemy character as long as they are more than 1'' away from other enemy models, but the Tyrannocyte is what you're thinking about.

 

It's also unique in that it's a deep striking transport. Set it up anywhere at least 9'' away, but then all units inside disembark the turn it arrives just like a transport, so they can also move after arriving.

 

It, like the Valkyrie, specifically uses the word "disembark". That's the key phrase that explains why a unit can move after. It's also not a deep strike because you're limited to only points where the Valk moved over, and they risk mortal wounds if the Valk moved further than 20'' - all things that aren't in effect for any other deep strike unit. I see no reason to believe it isn't allowed.

Edited July 12, 2017 by Lemondish