Sete Posted June 30, 2017 Share Posted June 30, 2017 After reading Dark Imperium, the new Primaris SW sucessor got stuck on my mind. What kind of colour do you guys think it should have? I like the pre heresy scheme metal grey bronze and red personally. And what kind of symbol should it have? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/335898-wolfspear-chapter/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quixus Posted June 30, 2017 Share Posted June 30, 2017 Has the new fluff eliminated the problem that people from other planets do not mix well with the canis helix? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/335898-wolfspear-chapter/#findComment-4803121 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sete Posted June 30, 2017 Author Share Posted June 30, 2017 (edited) I would not take the fluff for granted for the next couple years. Fact is WolfSpear exists. And it's a Primaris chapter of Heresy Time Fenrisians. More than that the fluff does not address. Which is a shame. I'm entertaining the possibility of making this chapter when the Primaris codex is out. Edited June 30, 2017 by Sete Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/335898-wolfspear-chapter/#findComment-4803144 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karhedron Posted June 30, 2017 Share Posted June 30, 2017 (edited) Has the new fluff eliminated the problem that people from other planets do not mix well with the canis helix? IIRC the Primaris SWs were actually taken from Fenris shortly after the HH. I think this is mentioned somewhere in Dark Millenium. Cawl says that he has fixed the instability issues with the geneseed but has not removed all its idiosyncrasies since these represented part of the Emperor's plans for these Marines. In short, Primaris SWs seem to work and be stable for now. How things will develop in future remains to be seen. Edited June 30, 2017 by Karhedronuk Sete 1 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/335898-wolfspear-chapter/#findComment-4803211 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 30, 2017 Share Posted June 30, 2017 I would not take the fluff for granted for the next couple years. Fact is WolfSpear exists. And it's a Primaris chapter of Heresy Time Fenrisians. More than that the fluff does not address. Which is a shame. I'm entertaining the possibility of making this chapter when the Primaris codex is out. Thought they said there wouldnt be a primaris codex as all primaris belong to their founding chapters. much like it is now where we have access to both the Emperor designed SW's and the Cael blasphemous Primaris. Also find it ridiculous that the Primaris are better matines then the Emperor could have done. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/335898-wolfspear-chapter/#findComment-4803352 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karhedron Posted June 30, 2017 Share Posted June 30, 2017 Also find it ridiculous that the Primaris are better matines then the Emperor could have done. In the HH novels, it is heavily implied that the Astartes are far from the pinnacle of the Emperor's genecraft. They were a mass-produced solution to the problem of the Great Crusade using left-over genetic material from the Primarch project. Like the Thunderwarriors that the Emperor used for the Uniifcation wars, I don't think Space Marines were intended to be a long term thing. Once the Crusade was complete and the Imperium established, they would have been allowed (or forced) to fade away. The Emperor already had his perfected warriors in the form of the Custodes. The fluff does not imply that Cawl is better than the Emperor. It took Cawl 9000 years to apply a mid-life upgrade to a project that the Emperor knocked up in a few decades to solve a short term problem. Valerian, Filius and Jarl Deathwolf 3 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/335898-wolfspear-chapter/#findComment-4803364 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hellrender Posted June 30, 2017 Share Posted June 30, 2017 To give it a metaphore, the first wheel invented isnt the same as the wheels we have today. The original idea was pure genius, but lesser (yet still brilliant) minds have latter simply taken that idea and improved on it. I view the primaris much the same way. And i still have to decide wether they are actually better or simply a different purpose. Frater Cornelius, Graymane, Filius and 4 others 7 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/335898-wolfspear-chapter/#findComment-4803382 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Hellion Posted June 30, 2017 Share Posted June 30, 2017 (edited) Still the idea that we finally have a successor chapter is of great appeal to me. After all my own homebrew chapter is descended from SW. Edited June 30, 2017 by Brotherblur Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/335898-wolfspear-chapter/#findComment-4803492 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vash113 Posted June 30, 2017 Share Posted June 30, 2017 We really don't have any solid information on what structure, colors or heraldry the Wolfspear would use. All we really know is that they were formed from the last Primaris Space Marines of the Unnumbered Sons of Russ from the ranks of the Indomitus Crusade, meaning that they were veterans of 112 years of fighting under Guilliman. We know that some, if not most or all of them will have been recruited from Fenris 10,000 years ago by Cawl or his agents, and likely represent a much older and less modern version of Fenris' culture, it also means that they won't have any direct link to the internal culture, traditions or history of the Space Wolves themselves, just ancient Fenris. Lastly we know where they have been stationed, garrisoning a literally nameless backwater in close proximity to the Cicatrix Maledictum anomaly known as the Eye of Raukos, an ignoble but necessary task likely IMO to instill some displeasure in those given the task over rejoining the Space Wolves on Fenris. I'd imagine the Wolfspear for colors and heraldry might adopt something similar to the 30k Space Wolves but I'd expect it to be idealized and inaccurate, dark grey but not the same exact shade of the 30k wolves, knotwork and iconography similar but not identical to the 30k wolves, and heraldry that follows similar but not perfect schemas. After all when they were recruited none of the Wolfspear battle-brothers would likely have ever met, or even seen in the flesh a Space Wolf, just known and heard legends and while they'd have records they would be (like everything else in the modern 40k timeline) inaccurate and incomplete. I imagine the chapter symbol probably relates to their name of Wolfspear, crossed spears, or a claw-tipped spear or something similar. I doubt it would just be the typical Blackmane wolf head in red on a black field but I dunno, maybe. EDIT: On a tangential note I find the idea of the Unnumbered Sons of Russ having something of a culture shock and identity crisis when actually meeting the modern Space Wolves who are very, very different from the 30k era wolves, they look different, act different, have different priorities, even the language has likely changed some in 10,000 years and certainly accents would differ. I think there's some significant room for interesting fluff where Primaris and normal Space Wolves start bumping heads over these differences. DanPesci, postxhumanity, Filius and 1 other 4 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/335898-wolfspear-chapter/#findComment-4803513 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deadnaughty Posted June 30, 2017 Share Posted June 30, 2017 I would not take the fluff for granted for the next couple years. Fact is WolfSpear exists. And it's a Primaris chapter of Heresy Time Fenrisians. More than that the fluff does not address. Which is a shame. I'm entertaining the possibility of making this chapter when the Primaris codex is out. Thought they said there wouldnt be a primaris codex as all primaris belong to their founding chapters. much like it is now where we have access to both the Emperor designed SW's and the Cael blasphemous Primaris. Also find it ridiculous that the Primaris are better matines then the Emperor could have done. The pinnacle of what the Emperors could do are the Primarchs. Space Marines where never the best he could have done. They were the best he was willing to do on the scale he required. Their not even the best he can do on a large scale, since I believe the Thunder Warriors were superior, tho perhaps less refined. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/335898-wolfspear-chapter/#findComment-4803525 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jackalwolf Posted June 30, 2017 Share Posted June 30, 2017 Since they're heresy era and not embedded in the last 10k years of traditions seems like an exceptional opportunity to create more viking and less wolfy wolf wolf kits when releasing the SW primaris. I'm waiting with bated breath!! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/335898-wolfspear-chapter/#findComment-4803687 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spinsanity Posted June 30, 2017 Share Posted June 30, 2017 (edited) Soo, what does DI actually say about them? Did they really get all the extra Primaris Marines that weren't integrated into the SpaceWolves? Edited June 30, 2017 by Spinsanity Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/335898-wolfspear-chapter/#findComment-4803689 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sete Posted June 30, 2017 Author Share Posted June 30, 2017 (edited) Ye vash I have been eyeing the wolf/claw/spear symbol on the sw transfer all day. I asked Guy Haley on FB if he would write a bit more about WolfSpear and he said that he will return to them in the future. Edited June 30, 2017 by Sete Filius 1 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/335898-wolfspear-chapter/#findComment-4803743 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vash113 Posted June 30, 2017 Share Posted June 30, 2017 Soo, what does DI actually say about them? Did they really get all the extra Primaris Marines that weren't integrated into the SpaceWolves? All doesn't necessarily mean a lot. By the end of the Indomitus Crusade there were only 20,000 Greyshields left, more than half of them Ultramarines, enough to further reinforce the Ultramarines, Scythes of the Emperor and create ten new chapters. The remaining like >9000 were divided from the other 8 primogenitors, I wouldn't think the Wolfspear would include much more than 1000 battle-brothers on inception, if that. Here's what is actually said: "They are a new chapter, brother," said Felix. "The remainder of the sons of Russ are to remain here, at Raukos. You are to guard the Pit."-P. 197. One could interpret "remaining" as a lot but I think it's probably the case that only about 1000 Space Wolves were left and they got lumped into a new chapter. Ye vash I have been eyeing the wolf/claw/spear symbol on the sw transfer all day. Got a pic of the image you are talking about? I can't tell which one your thinking of. Since they're heresy era and not embedded in the last 10k years of traditions seems like an exceptional opportunity to create more viking and less wolfy wolf wolf kits when releasing the SW primaris. I'm waiting with bated breath!! Indeed, more viking, less wolf may well be the intent here and certainly this allows for that aesthetic distinction between the Primaris and non-Primaris sons of Russ, whether Space Wolf or otherwise. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/335898-wolfspear-chapter/#findComment-4803826 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sete Posted June 30, 2017 Author Share Posted June 30, 2017 (edited) On mobile can't share pics.Google space wolves captain heraldy (I know) And see the claw spear symbol on the Captain's. Shoulder pad. Edited June 30, 2017 by Sete Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/335898-wolfspear-chapter/#findComment-4803837 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Triszin Posted June 30, 2017 Share Posted June 30, 2017 this transfer? I don't know which symbol your referencing Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/335898-wolfspear-chapter/#findComment-4803936 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sete Posted June 30, 2017 Author Share Posted June 30, 2017 First one on the top left under runes and honour marking Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/335898-wolfspear-chapter/#findComment-4803938 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Triszin Posted June 30, 2017 Share Posted June 30, 2017 It's a space wolf marking for grey hunters http://i305.photobucket.com/albums/nn221/artrelegis/spacewolvestransfersheet-1.jpg Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/335898-wolfspear-chapter/#findComment-4803944 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Triszin Posted June 30, 2017 Share Posted June 30, 2017 (edited) I imagine the wolf spear icon might be similar to the Spear of russ, perhaps a simplified wolf skull over a spear tip? ------------------- captain and librarian and reivers are this weekend preorder so I imagine the Tanks, dread, and dex for the primaris to come the week after with a big reveal for the overlord in august. so at the most for real confirmation you might have to wait 2 months. Edited June 30, 2017 by Triszin Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/335898-wolfspear-chapter/#findComment-4803949 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sete Posted June 30, 2017 Author Share Posted June 30, 2017 Yep that one. Grey Hunter symbol. Like a Wolf Claw/Spear so yeah. Well I'm trying to adjust to the setting, so I don't mind waiting. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/335898-wolfspear-chapter/#findComment-4803959 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Triszin Posted June 30, 2017 Share Posted June 30, 2017 oh, here is forgeworlds heresy era SPace wolf markings for you to look over https://www.forgeworld.co.uk/resources/PDF/fw_warscrolls//space-wolves-legion-transfer.pdf Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/335898-wolfspear-chapter/#findComment-4803962 Share on other sites More sharing options...
HvitrValdyr Posted July 1, 2017 Share Posted July 1, 2017 First one on the top left under runes and honour marking Second edition codex referred to that as a Wolf Tail honour marking. http://i376.photobucket.com/albums/oo203/foyt21/20170630_184344_zps7hoiv45q.jpg Valerian, Wraithwing and Filius 3 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/335898-wolfspear-chapter/#findComment-4804046 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Valerian Posted July 1, 2017 Share Posted July 1, 2017 Bringing out some old-school photos. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/335898-wolfspear-chapter/#findComment-4804055 Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaveriK Posted July 1, 2017 Share Posted July 1, 2017 I imagine these new wolves have not tasted Fenris brewed mjod... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/335898-wolfspear-chapter/#findComment-4804079 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Filius Posted July 1, 2017 Share Posted July 1, 2017 (edited) I'm with Vash here … we hardly have anything solid, so anything is possible. And Caldersson has extracted everything there is to extract from the Novel. Which sums up for me to "There are hardly any major differences between the Space Wolves and the Wolfspear". Of course there probably will be some, and some reasons for that have already been mentioned in this thread. But we haven't been told so yet. So … only thing left by now, is what we wish for the Wolfspear to be. I – very personally – would wish for the Wolfspear to go in the opposite direction of Forge Worlds 30k Space Wolves: Stronger, brighter Colours, more Contrast in the Colour-Scheme and the Design of the Minis, maybe even a different Base-Colour for the Armour. I think, keeping the yellow Shoulder Pads but having the main Armour in a green tone would look great and still wolfish, halfway toward Woodelves, adding more celtic Elements than skandinavian. And when I look a the last Additions to the 40k Space Wolves (Wulfen, Thunderwolf Cavalery, the new Ulrik and Krom) and try to mix this in my head with the new Primaris Designs … then this direction seems to be not all to implausible to me … to say it very, very carefully. P.S.: If you look at the Ultima Founding Chapters, we currently know about, you can see, that the "main topics" of their Parent Chapter are kept: The Knights of the Chalice have a Chalice and are blood red. The Baldes of Vengeance are dark green and bony, the Fulminators a blue and golden. They even keep the Heraldry deviations from the Codex from their Parent Chapter (in Case of the the Knights of the Chalice). Most notably … the Raven Guard Successor Chapter "Rift Stalker" has an inverted Colour-Scheme to their parent Chapter: White with a Black Raven. I thinks that's especially interesting, as they either are Stealthy Marines on an Snow World or developed other, yet unknow means of stealthyness where a plain white Armour doesn't matter, or they gave up the whole Stealthy thing. All of these possible Directions are quite interesting, esp. when you consider what it might mean for the Wolfspear … Edited July 1, 2017 by Filius Sete 1 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/335898-wolfspear-chapter/#findComment-4804258 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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