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Clarification on Wolf Guard and Special weapons in a unit

TheWolfLord

By TheWolfLord
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TheWolfLord Battle-Brother

TheWolfLord

Posted
Posted (edited)

Just wanted to pass it on.

 

Simon Grant has clarified in a post in the Space Wolves Facebook group that Wolf Guard Pack Leaders do not count towards the number of models in a unit for unlocking Special weapons.

 

I.e. 8 Grey Hunters, a Grey Hunter Pack Leader and a Wolf Guard Pack Leader doesn't count as 10 models so can't take 2 Special weapons plus the Wolf Guards Combi weapon.

 

This counts for Bloodclaws or all other units with similar wording.

 

He is going to discuss this with the other rules writers on Monday to see if this can be changed or if it needs to be clarified as it was originally intended. He'll get an update out as soon as possible.

Edited by TheWolfLord
Quixus Venerable Brother

Quixus

Posted
Posted (edited)

Has he even read the rules? It clearly says for every 5 models. GHPL and WGPL are models last time I checked.

 

If they don't want 8 GH with two pack leaders to gain two special weapons they need to issue an erratum, not some random facebook post.

Edited by Quixus
Valerian Venerable Brother

Valerian

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Like he said, he'll discuss with the rest of the rules team on Monday, and they'll either do nothing, or they'll issue an Erratum. For now, don't change what you're doing, and just follow the rules as written, as always.
Nharvey89 Battle-Brother

Nharvey89

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Unless something comes to in writing to say otherwise I'm going with as written, frankly it's wording in the book didn't cause me any confusion. The unit can take a wgpl so the wgpl is taken and is part of the unit. If the unit model count is 10 I get the chance to take an extra special weapon. Until reading this post I hadn't even known there was any confusion over this lol.
Deadnaughty Battle-Brother

Deadnaughty

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It's funny, Reece was asked this same question and you would think as a play tester he would know. His answer was the exact opposite of Simon's. Talk about the right hand not knowing what the left hand is doing......

I assume the play testers didn't send their lists to Simon for scrutiny. Reece thought the rule was clear (it is, 8 GH, a pack leader and a WG is 10 models and so 2 specials) and therefor never asked Simon for clarification. Thus the 'wrong interpretation' of the rules was not found during testing.

Quixus Venerable Brother

Quixus

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Don't ask me, ask GW. Whil I like the idea of free veteran sergeants, I don't think there should be a WGPL and a GHPL in the unit. Who is the GHPL supposed to lead, if the WGPL calls the shots. I can see them combat squading and each leading one half but the rules do not prohibit 4 GH 1 WGPL and 1 GHPL. That is just weird.

Hellrender Veteran

Hellrender

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Not really space wolves units normally stay together from blood claw to long fang. The blood claw, grey hunter, long fang, wolf scout etc, pack leaders are simply are vhosen from that pack based on their merit. Much like ragnar in the early ragnar novels.

 

Wolf guard are chosen by the wolf lord and are in a lot of cases bodyguard, advisor and the wolf lords spokesmen.

 

When they get assigned to a pack they afe therebto ensure that that pack achieves the goals set by the wolf lord. In this way the wolf guard functions like a veteran sergeant.

 

That to me is the real difference between the two. It has all to do with the unique structure of the space wolves chapter.

Quixus Venerable Brother

Quixus

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Posted

Not really space wolves units normally stay together from blood claw to long fang. The blood claw, grey hunter, long fang, wolf scout etc, pack leaders are simply are vhosen from that pack based on their merit. Much like ragnar in the early ragnar novels.

 

Wolf guard are chosen by the wolf lord and are in a lot of cases bodyguard, advisor and the wolf lords spokesmen.

I know.

 

When they get assigned to a pack they afe therebto ensure that that pack achieves the goals set by the wolf lord. In this way the wolf guard functions like a veteran sergeant.

How is that function different from a primaris lieutenant? Marines that are not permanently part of a unit should be their own unit IMHO. I liked the mechanic of the 5th ed dex. Take a unit of WG and split them up as ICs for different units.

TheWolfLord Battle-Brother

TheWolfLord

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We already have the rules for a Wolf Guard and it's a 1 wound model. Characters are all multi wound models. Why would they give us another separate character that's a single wound model and how can they justify increasing a WGPL wounds?
Valerian Venerable Brother

Valerian

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Game wise it feels a little strange that we can't have our unit at optimum full strength and fit it into our main transport. Just leads me to want to use wolf guard even more lol.

That's more or less what I told Simon.

Guest

Guest

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I really feel like they should let us replace the pack leaders with WG pack leaders and count toward the 10 or 15 man pack. It feels unusual and very codex-y with this current scheme. Its almost like they want our pack leaders to be sergeants and WG pack leader to be lieutenants. I realize thats not how the current SM squads work but with the primaris marines reintroducing Lieutenant, I feel their codex might just go that way. Plus wasnt how it used to work?
Valerian Venerable Brother

Valerian

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I don't like that idea at all. You'd lose the second special melee weapon in the pack, as well as his extra Attack. I just prefer they leave it as it is (and how it was all through 7th edition).
Guest

Guest

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Posted

I don't like that idea at all. You'd lose the second special melee weapon in the pack, as well as his extra Attack. I just prefer they leave it as it is (and how it was all through 7th edition).

Currently does the WGPL count to the unit, if so that is the best. My scenario is if WGPL doesnt count i'd rather have the option to upgrade.

Filius Battle-Brother

Filius

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I have to agree with the common opinion around here, that the Wolf Guard Pack Leader should count towards the Models of the Unit. Otherwise one could argue that the 9 Grey Hunter  + Grey Hunter Pack Leader should be allowed to choose for one Special Weapon and one Special or Heavy Weapon and not only two Special Weapons …

TheWolfLord Battle-Brother

TheWolfLord

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Because Simon only raised this on Thursday, as per my original post he's not going to discuss this issue with the other rules writers until tomorrow so it was never going to be on this FAQ

TheWolfLord Battle-Brother

TheWolfLord

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I agree about upgrading the *PL to WGPL is a better option than making 11-man units to get 2 specials. Did they just not even consider the impact on using rhinos and drop pods?

You wouldn't need 11 men to get 2 specials. You'd need 11 men to get 2 specials and a Combi.

 

If you only took 10 men you'd either have the option to take 2 specials or a special and a Combi (if you wanted a Wolf Guard in those 10 men).

TheWolfLord Battle-Brother

TheWolfLord

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  • Author
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Simon has just confirmed that Wolf Guard will count towards the units size for Special weapons.

 

He also confirmed that missing wargear combinations will be allowed.

 

There will be an update soon.

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