Dealing with snipers

[Sawtooth]

I haven't faced down snipers yet, but I'm anxious because I know it's coming. Everyone at my LGS recognizes their benefits this edition and Imperial Guard seem particularly vulnerable. I'd like to know what kinds of anti-sniper tactics people have been using, and any pitfalls to avoid.

[shandwen]

Against vindicare assasins it is pretty much a waste to try to kill them (to small of a chance to bother counter-snipping).

Against admech I would recommend doing your best to Target down the sniper squads, but again the effort to kill is too high if they have more than one or two squads.

Against other guard you would probably be better off using your own snipers to Target his characters rather than attempt to protect your own.

 

On the defensive side though, commanders can easily be hid by metal bawkes. Block line of sight from enemy snipers for your most important guys, and cross your fingers and hope that your commies live through the first couple turns....

[Gen.Steiner]

Mortars, tanks, heavy weapons, snipers... and most importantly cover and use of radios to maintain a command net.

[Captain_Krash]

Exactly use terrain to your advantage. Vox's are going to be key for this strategy you could ultimately counter sniper really nicely and easily point for point with a 10 man unit of rattling's.

 

Krash

[Lemondish]

Yeah, I imagine snipers will be the counter to mass conscript spam supported by commissars and priests etc. You take out the commissar, and that 50 man unit is going to melt pretty quickly the moment they need to take any morale checks.

 

My personal preference would be to fly a Valk into the sniper squads each turn to tie them up if it isn't worth throwing all your firepower at them. But that's only because I love the idea of turning on the hover jets and throwing debris everywhere just to piss them off. The image is hilarious lol

Edited July 1, 2017 by Lemondish

[Gen.Steiner]

The answer to snipers attempting to disrupt your conscript spam is more conscript spam.

6 blocks of 50 conscripts with 6 commissars and 6 officers and 6 priests ... snipe that! :P I mean, sure, it's something like 1,400 points, but I defy anyone to kill even half of that mass before the end of the game.

 

Ratlings are probably a good counter-sniper strategy if you don't have access to a Leman Russ or artillery piece to do the business for you.

[Captain_Krash]

@Gen.Steiner More like "Paint that!"

 

Krash

[duz_]

Put your models out of LOS

 

The games I've played so far there's been enough terrain on the board to make this happen. Guard models are small so shouldn't be an issue.

 

Basilisks and Wyvrens also do quick work of them too. So target the snipers if they're an issue. :)

[Withershadow]

Just throw wounds at them.  Wyverns or Thudd guns.

 

Ratlings are T2 and have terrible morale with a 4+ save at best.  Rangers will be 3+ but still T3 and more expensive.  Even Vindicares will fold under volume of wounds, only the striders will require an amount of resources I'd consider excessive.

[Akrim]

Easy, get behind a tank, Chimera, Hellhound whatever and hug the rear armour, no LOS unless they have a crazy elevated position. Just make sure the Infantry are in a good supporting position (ie wrapping it).

 

Bring in some Scions to dispose of said snipers or as mentioned artillery them out of existence.

[Galron]

Dont base your army off of characters. They are force multipliers for me, but I dont make my army rely on them.

[Zectz]

Even Vindicares will fold under volume of wounds, only the striders will require an amount of resources I'd consider excessive.

Just a small point of Vindicated also have the character keyword meaning they can't be targeted if not the closest unit. Something to keep in mind.

 

Still overall I don't really see snipers being that big of a deal... Just for a perspective here are some armies that don't have ANY kind of sniper unit available (forget allies. I would include Grey Knights & Sisters but for the sake of Vindicares I won't):

 

Chaos Daemons

Chaos Marines

Orks

Dark Eldar

Tyranids

 

That's a pretty good chunk of players... And of the armies that do have access like Tau for example, how likely are they to bring Sniper Drones instead of monsters/battlesuits/broadsides? In fact these Sniper Drones don't even cause mortal wounds on 6s. Doesn't scare me to be honest.

 

Even a Vindicare will be hard pressed to remove our characters each turn. A Company Commander has 4 wounds at 30 points. The only way he can kill him in a single turn is rolling a 6 to wound. This 90 point models will do D3 damaged more often each turn. And even that is very unreliable and not enough to remove a Company Commander or a Lord Commissar. So this player has payed 90 points to spent multiple turns to remove a 30 point model.

 

Yes the Vindicate can kill the basic Commissar and Platoon Commander at 3 wounds. But even this is only on a 33% chance on the wound roll for D3 damage. Doesn't sound to scary to me when a 90 point assassin is struggling to kill 20/30 point characters which you will be bringing multiples of.

 

Even Space Marine scout snipers/Eldar rangers will be hard pressed to kill Commanders in a single turn. 5 man scouts with snipers cost 75 points which isn't anywhere near guarantee to kill a 30 point Commander... If these units are able to get multiple turns of shooting at your characters then you are not using your movement phase correctly either.

[Lemondish]

Hey Zectz, I'm not so sure a direct point comparison is helpful. As Galron said above, they're force multipliers, so if that commissar is there to make 150 points worth of conscripts into a viable fighting forever, then he's worth more than that 30 points implies. Edited July 2, 2017 by Lemondish

[Zectz]

Yeah I get that, but the point is that he's going to struggle to remove that 30 point model in 2 turns at least. And that single model is one of many commanders/commissars. If your opponent is going to bring those points to deal with these models and not actually kill them off in time? Is it even worth it? Your infantry squads are more likely to die from proper units by the time he kills of the characters supporting them.

 

It's so unlikely he'll be able to kill a character in a single turn, and if you let him get more than 1 turn of shooting at your characters something is wrong.

[duz_]

Except the whole point of vindicares is to take out characters regardless of points.

They're actually useless and expensive to do anything else. This is particularly the case when you can't even snipe out special weapons any more.

So regardless of point costs they're going to be shooting at them if they're in a list.

[Zectz]

... And with D3 damage a turn do you think they are something to be worried about?

[Indefragable]

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2013/06/20/article-2345454-1A6A53BD000005DC-195_964x649.jpg

 

"US troops in Vietnam return fire on a sniper."

[Mr. Moe]

Redundancy can help, especially when using big blobs of conscripts I'd invest in more commissars then needed.

 

Otherwise I think snipers are a juicy target for an evesor assassin! I'm debating wether to bring an evesor vs. a vindicare in my list. 

[Sawtooth]

Much obliged for all the great information. I suppose a part of my trepidation is having never faced snipers in 8th, but I feel a bit better about the prospect now.

[NatBrannigan]

He'll only look after some of your Characters in the same area, but Nork looks a great shout if you want to protect Characters for a few turns.