Ancients and Apothecaries: How to use them?

[Adeptus]

What I've been attempting to do is drop in some Paladins with Character support in the form of an Ancient and an Apothecary. I find that, if the enemy want to come to me, that it works great. The extra LD, extra attacks and ability to heal wounds is great.

 

But on the offensive, I find the Apothecary and Ancient often get left behind. I deploy them usually behind the Paladins to protect them in case of wiffed charge rolls, but that often means that they are unable to charge since they're further away from the enemy. As a result, my Paladins quickly leave them behind and can't benefit from their auras. A unit that is in charge range can get a lot of momentum up, with 2D6 assault move, 3" in the fight phase and another 3" if they get to consolidate, so missing an early charge with the Ancient or Apothecary can leave them a LONG way behind.

 

Is there a simple trick I'm missing? Should I be more inclined to burn command points on the charge dice for Ancients and Apothecaries to get them into combat? Should I be deploying them more aggressively when they arrive from deepstrike? Are the just better suited to deploying from a Stormraven or Landraider?

 

On an unrelated note, when you consolidate from combat you can move into 1" of the enemy 'trapping' them in combat, yeah? That's how we've been playing it so far.

[Valerian]

Yes, you can consolidate to within 1" to "lock" new units into combat.

Here are some pictures of how you could deploy via teleportation to help you out a bit:

If you'll notice, the Apothecary and Ancient (the two unpainted models) are still just a hair further back than all of the Paladins in the "arc" facing Bjorn. You could let one of the regular Paladins come in even a little further behind the rest, to protect from a surprise ambush from the rear, if you're worried about that, too. Bjorn can't target the Ancient or Apothecary, since the Paladins are a wee bit closer, but a roll of a 9s would still be successful charges for all of them.

[Soder]

On the same topic of apothecaries, they allow you to replace its nemesis force sword with a falchion but why would you ever do that when the one falchion won't give you the extra attack and has less AP?! Am I missing something here? Edited July 1, 2017 by Soder

[Valerian]

No, you'd never do it. The option is just there for completeness.

[Adeptus]

Yes, you can consolidate to within 1" to "lock" new units into combat.

Here are some pictures of how you could deploy via teleportation to help you out a bit:

If you'll notice, the Apothecary and Ancient (the two unpainted models) are still just a hair further back than all of the Paladins in the "arc" facing Bjorn. You could let one of the regular Paladins come in even a little further behind the rest, to protect from a surprise ambush from the rear, if you're worried about that, too. Bjorn can't target the Ancient or Apothecary, since the Paladins are a wee bit closer, but a roll of a 9s would still be successful charges for all of them.

Thanks, I guess I've just been deploying a bit too cautiously with them.

[Blakklist]

I use an ancient plus put the Inspiring Leader Warlord trait on a character. I usually have both those models around my Pali squad. I then cast purge soul with my Pali squad. I have caused 7 mortal wounds to a predator using this. I love using Ancients for the additional attack as well. I have fielded Apothecarys in my last 3 games and have yet to use them. Like you said above they tend to get left behind. Ancients are a must I'm my armies. I have wiped whole squads using Purge. I will waist command points every time if they rolled low for a chance to roll high.

[SyNidus]

I use an ancient plus put the Inspiring Leader Warlord trait on a character. I usually have both those models around my Pali squad. I then cast purge soul with my Pali squad. I have caused 7 mortal wounds to a predator using this. I love using Ancients for the additional attack as well. I have fielded Apothecarys in my last 3 games and have yet to use them. Like you said above they tend to get left behind. Ancients are a must I'm my armies. I have wiped whole squads using Purge. I will waist command points every time if they rolled low for a chance to roll high.

That is a pretty nice way to use Ancients.

 

A question for the floor: Seeing as Paladin Ancients cost about 5 points less than a librarian, which would you guys choose and in what situation?

 

With the librarian you have the utility of the psychic hood along with 2 casts and denies. 

With the Ancient, you get a pretty good combat character with more attacks and a strong Purge.

[Myunch]

I would definitely run the Librarian against armies with Psykers, that +1 to deny is a bigger help than most realize. Against horde armies it would seem the Ancient would have his limelight. Purge soul absolutely obliterates low leadership units while the extra attacks can help mow down large units with ease.