World Eaters Rubicae?

[Panzer]

I wasn't shouting, consider it... extreme word highlighting

I'll use that next time when I'm shouting extreme word highlighting in real life. :D

[Brother Aiwass]

Considering your chapter name, that'll be most fitting ^_^

[Commissar K.]

Shouting doesn't help anybody (and yes writing caps is basically shouting...using caps with even bigger font and bold on top is even worse lmao). They obviously don't want to listen so no argument will get through to them anyway. Give it up and let them play their own version of the game. ^^

All I see is that a small part of the players is in denial because they do not feel like they need to read all the rules. So I'm expecting this rules-avoiding trend to continue well up to September. By then I hope all will understand how Keywords work. When we look at edition to edition changes we can always see the typical emotions follow this model.

 

http://www.leopard-learning.com/images/changemodel.jpg

 

Aiwass here is clearly in phase 2. Initially there was a displayed Denial, now, with wording and non-relevant pictures there is a clearly displayed Resistance. 

What I hope he will do is actually pick up the 8th edition Rulesbook, read it, read how Keywors work and are displayed and then read Index Chaos again. This will get him to phase 3. To which the steps to reach step 4 are much easier made. This is the case because the player then understands where Index Chaos' strenghts and weaknesses are. This is impossible to judge when you are still in phase 1,2 or 3.

 

It is even said on page 10 of Index Chaos that explains <Legion> and <Mark of Chaos> that some units do not have this Keyword but many do. However for those who do not have it the whole additional ruling for that Keyword does not apply.

 

Likewise, regular Space Marines have <Chapter> and that Keyword and it's ruling does not apply to Index Chaos either. In addition, for those who actually have read Index Chaos and paid attention they will also see that <Mark of Chaos> is most certainly not the only way to obtain Keyword Khorne, Slaanesh, Nurgle or Tzeentch by removing <Mark of Chaos>. In the same Index Chaos daemonic alliances are also an ability to generate Keyword Khorne, Slaanesh, Nurgle or Tzeentch and no, daemonic alliances don't 'count as' Keyword <Mark of Chaos> either.

 

The point is that no Keyword counts as anything other than itself. So when you check for Keywords you check specifically. To which the RAW still do not say that Keyword <Mark of Chaos> is the same as any other Keyword. Not even Keyword Chaos.

[Panzer]

"A small part of the players" he says but completely ignores that it's basically two who argue in favor of that weird interpretation of the rules and everybody else who actually dares to take part in this ridiculous discussion against that interpretation.

Delusional much? :D

 

Anyway, I won't bite. You already convinced me that it's not worth discussing with you and I didn't change my mind. ;)

[Commissar K.]

"A small part of the players" he says but completely ignores that it's basically two who argue in favor of that weird interpretation of the rules and everybody else who actually dares to take part in this ridiculous discussion against that interpretation.

Delusional much?

 

Anyway, I won't bite. You already convinced me that it's not worth discussing with you and I didn't change my mind.

Oh no, locally here there is no such a discussion. Players who bother to read Keywords in and out and understand how they work do not make suggestions that Keyword A is also B.

 

I think the only ones who are dellusional are those who havn't played a single game of 8th yet.

[Panzer]

 

"A small part of the players" he says but completely ignores that it's basically two who argue in favor of that weird interpretation of the rules and everybody else who actually dares to take part in this ridiculous discussion against that interpretation.

Delusional much?

 

Anyway, I won't bite. You already convinced me that it's not worth discussing with you and I didn't change my mind.

Oh no, locally here there is no such a discussion. Players who bother to read Keywords in and out and understand how they work do not make suggestions that Keyword A is also B.

 

I think the only ones who are dellusional are those who havn't played a single game of 8th yet.

 

Locally is a whole different topic tho lol

Locally nobody here even remotely thinks your interpretion could be close to how it works.

[Commissar K.]

 

 

"A small part of the players" he says but completely ignores that it's basically two who argue in favor of that weird interpretation of the rules and everybody else who actually dares to take part in this ridiculous discussion against that interpretation.

Delusional much?

 

Anyway, I won't bite. You already convinced me that it's not worth discussing with you and I didn't change my mind.

Oh no, locally here there is no such a discussion. Players who bother to read Keywords in and out and understand how they work do not make suggestions that Keyword A is also B.

 

I think the only ones who are dellusional are those who havn't played a single game of 8th yet.

 

Locally is a whole different topic tho lol

Locally nobody here even remotely thinks your interpretion could be close to how it works.

 

You havn't played 8th yet. As much is clear.

 

But hey, phase 2, feel free to blame others such as me.

 

As said I reckon that by September you'll understand how Keywords work.

[Panzer]

lmao I played 8th plenty all ready. I mean I'm one of those who uploaded the leaked rules on imgur and posted them on this very forum back then. But sure go ahead spouting more bs. :D

[Commissar K.]

lmao I played 8th plenty all ready. I mean I'm one of those who uploaded the leaked rules on imgur and posted them on this very forum back then. But sure go ahead spouting more bs.

Again the use of bad mounting others only confirms the insecurity. The point remains Keyword <Mark of Chaos>  is a seperate Keyword, has it's own rules that apply for Keyword <Mark of Chaos> alone.

 

When you check for Keyword X you only check for Keyword X.

 

What models with the Keyword World Eaters have to do is check other units with Keyword <Mark of Chaos>. All units without it are skipped in that same process. It's simple phase 2.

[Panzer]

Alright, buddy. I basically already told you you win. Not sure why you want to keep trying to convince me of your interpretation. Keep playing it your way, I don't care but I and the others will keep calling you out for it whenever you try to tell someone that this is how it works on this forum.

If GW releases a FAQ that states your interpretation is how it works, then fine. Doesn't make your attitude better but then it's clear at least. If not then it only makes you looking even worse than you already do and I bet my army that's how the story will end.

 

Trying to tell me that I'm insecure or whatever isn't going to do anything except making your arguments look even more ridiculous. ;)

[Commissar K.]

What I hope GW will do is errata this because it could have been as simple as stating Keyword Khorne is a requirement to gaining Keyword World Eaters.

 

This might be changed for Codex World Eaters but for now there is not a single strain of narrative overruling RAW.

 

You can have Khârn in an list with lots of Emperors Children all the same. Not doing so is a choice, not a rule.

 

Yet with the latest faq, GW does not go out of its way to remove stranges rules.

- Poxwalkers vs Necrons

- Skarbrand vs Flyers

Just to name a couple.

[Panzer]

Nobody ever claimed that you can't have Khârn in a list with lots of Emperor's Children tho. Just that Noise Marines etc. can't be World Eaters. But hey, after two threads with 4+ pages I'm sure you know what the topic is about so no need to explain it to you.

It's discussed to death anyway. You and your friends play a version of 40k where you can have World Eater cult units that are not Berzerker and World Eater sorcerer, and that's totally fine because it's basically a houserule, you just won't be convincing anybody here.

[Commissar K.]

The rules as written have us explained that Keyword <Mark of Chaos> is not the same as Khorne, Slaanesh, Nurgle and Tzeentch. What <Mark of Chaos> allows for is to be removed and replaced. What becomes clear to me again is that players do not understand what a Keyword is or refuse to understand that if you replace something it is not the same as it was before.

Narrative makes no impact on rules, <Mark of Chaos> and the way it interacts sometimes with <Legion> is also an example of many of rules creating a strange interaction that is not inline with any narrative. Likewise we see Poxwalkers creating Poxwalkers out of Necrons while Necrons still restore themselves aswell somehow. Narrative is lost, not a rule and this is actually quite typical for GW in recent years. 

[Panzer]

I love how you always think someone is talking about narrative even tho nobody ever mentioned it. It is and was always about the RAW of the rules. :D

[Brother Aiwass]

Maybe this thread should (moderate word highlighting) be moved to the Rules section so non-biased may give us their insight? 

[Commissar K.]

I love how you always think someone is talking about narrative even tho nobody ever mentioned it. It is and was always about the RAW of the rules.

RAW Keyword <Mark of Chaos> has rules that only apply to Keyword <Mark of Chaos>.

 

Keyword Khorne does not have to follow any of these rules more than Slaanesh, <Legion> or Daemon.

[Khornate individual]

Funny, you tell everyone to read and re read there book's.  So I pull out my chaos book, I look at page 45 and under the bold print that says "Servants of Khorne" it states word for word - "If a World Eaters unit has the <Mark of Chaos> keyword, it must be Khorne."

From that I get World Eaters MUST be Khorne.

Then you have a denial flow chart, how smug can one person be.

Where's a moderator to close down an ignorant thread when you need one.

[WarriorFish]

Please use the Report button if you wish to alert the moderators. If a mod hasn't posted recently then it's always safest to assume one isn't reading, and be sure to make your Report to bring one in sooner.

 

Conversely, if a mod or admin posts that's a good sign to exhibit the type of behaviour we expect to see on the B&C if you weren't already doing so.

[Paradigm]

A moment...

 

If you have a square hole, and put a square peg in said hole, it will fit.

 

If you have a triangular peg, it will not fit in said hole.

 

If you have a circular peg, it will not fit in a square hole.

 

If you have two square pegs, and one is green and one is blue. The hole doesn't care, it is still square, and so are the pegs. They both fit.

 

If you are asked to place a red square peg in all square holes, great, they fit too.

 

Now you come upon a square hole with a blue peg already in the hole. It fits snugly, and cannot be removed, and must be left in place.

 

Did you place a red peg in this hole for the purposes of completing the task of placing a red square peg in each square hole?

 

Certainly, not at all.

 

This is exactly how keywords work.

[Irbis]

Also, GW has screwed the narrative in a big way for CSM. Dark apostles are supposed to be exclusive to word bearers among the legions is my particular axe to grind, along with the fact that space marines are extra resilient to fear, but space marines that literaly live in hell arent and daemons themselves have worse leadership than space marines and can run away from battle.

 

Why would bitter, broken :cuss who is in it for himself and already damned his soul be more fearless than a zealot fighting for ideal believing he will get reward for glorious death?

 

If anything it's PRECISELY seeing the hell and knowing what awaits if you screw up that makes them less resilient. Unless you're brain dead fanatic like Berserkers but these are extra-extra resilient so you have zero basis for your complain, really.

 

As for daemons, did you miss the part present in last half dozen editions plainly stating that the smaller their presence, the bigger their instability? Kill a few and the rest doesn't "run away" but vanishes into the warp. Always did, that's how you won the battle with Chaos since ever.

 

But I guess I shouldn't be surprised you two mangle fluff seeing what you do to these poor rules

[Brother Tyler]

Asked and answered.

The onging "debate" is circular in nature and will lead nowhere except to frustration.