FAQs are up!

[Trystram]

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2017/07/02/warhammer-40000-faq-now-available-july2gw-homepage-post-1/

[Khornestar]

Glad to finally have an official answer as to how to fight twice with 'zerkers.

[JamesI]

I'm sad about my Exalted Sorcerers getting more expensive.

[Commissar K.]

More crazy rules and gotcha's added, what's not to love! Go 8th!

[Herald of Magnus]

The All is Dust rule affecting invulnerable saves too? I know that might not be as big as I'm initially thinking (since high AP weapons tend to be more than D1) but dayum that seems nice! Rubric marines seem rather cheap in points for what they can do?

[Marshal Loss]

Surprised there was no points increase to Typhus. Not that I'm complaining.

[Raven1]

Clearing up "All is Dust" is welcome. The point increase to exalted not so much but they should be more than sorcerers.

[Sception]

Wound Reduction on Chaos Daemons Daemon Princes is nice.  Autodeath for non-hovering flyers that get caught in melee near skarbrand is amusing.

[Cheex]

Glad to finally have an official answer as to how to fight twice with 'zerkers.

I am so keen for this. I was playing the weaker interpretation, so this is huge for me.

[Azekai]

Wound Reduction on Chaos Daemons Daemon Princes is nice. 

Agreed. Paradoxically, the Chaos Daemon guys make for better, more Death Guard-esque units than the Heretic Astartes version, with their access to 'Disgustingly Resilient' and plague psyker powers.

[Sception]

On the other hand, lack of warp-time and an aura buff that doesn't apply to non-daemonic heretic astartes units means that, while the daemons' prince is certainly better overall, the astartes' prince may still have niches where it works out better, such as supporting raptors, or warp-timing itself into assault range when deep striking.

[Commissar K.]

In regards to the Daemon Prince of Chaos, I've personally lost all interest in it. Because as Malisteen said there are no real ways to make him work now. Before he at least had more wounds to work with and I liked that prospect. As is he just feels like a bad Be'lakor to be honest. 

 

[Sception]

What?  More wounds was a bad thing.  8 wounds on a character is significantly better than 10, due to the whole 'cannot be targeted outside of melee unless he's the closest target' thing.  And he gets the godly upgrades, which the astartes daemon prince doesn't.

 

I mean, I wasn't trying to list reasons why the astartes prince is /better/, I was listing the only two reasons that just barely stop him from being /objectively worse/.  Other than warptiming himself (because if you're warp timing something else a jump or terminator sorcerer can do it cheaper), or buffing non-daemonic astartes units, the daemons prince is just better.  Do you have another sorcerer who will be casting warp time?  Are you supporting warp talons or possessed, or acting independently, or alongside daemons like fiends or such?  Then take the daemons version for the free aligned buff.

 

Belakor is nice, don't get me wrong.  But he's a special character, and, iirc (though I could be wrong, I haven't memorized the daemon points values yet) a fair bit pricier than the generic prince.

Edited July 3, 2017 by malisteen

[Commissar K.]

What?  More wounds was a bad thing.  8 wounds on a character is significantly better than 10, due to the whole 'cannot be targeted outside of melee unless he's the closest target' thing.  And he gets the godly upgrades, which the astartes daemon prince doesn't.

 

I mean, I wasn't trying to list reasons why the astartes prince is /better/, I was listing the only two reasons that just barely stop him from being /objectively worse/.  Other than warptiming himself (because if you're warp timing something else a jump or terminator sorcerer can do it cheaper), or buffing non-daemonic astartes units, the daemons prince is just better.  Do you have another sorcerer who will be casting warp time?  Are you supporting warp talons or possessed, or acting independently, or alongside daemons like fiends or such?  Then take the daemons version for the free aligned buff.

 

Belakor is nice, don't get me wrong.  But he's a special character, and, iirc (though I could be wrong, I haven't memorized the daemon points values yet) a fair bit pricier than the generic prince.

10 wounds for that cost was not a bad thing at all. With Power 11 he could be summoned quite easily and thus his wounds would only be an issue the moment you would not consider this tactical advantage to summon him in the first place.

 

The prime differnce between the Daemon Prince and of Chaos version for me was how its role differs per faction. To me the most potent factors from Daemons of Chaos come from HQ choices. The moment you are talking about these we often talk about Greater Daemons who at the 10+ wound mark will always be a target.

 

Being targeted like that can be migated with simply said bringing more wounds. An full HQ army of Chaos Daemons indeed is a scary prospect. Now by all means the Daemon Prince of Chaos isn't bad but with its 8th wounds he does not contribute well to the full monster armies who simply present as much wounds as they can to ensure 1-3 monsters will arrive at key targets in 2 turns.

 

So for me this isn't a nerf or upgrade, just a change to wounds which now has him directly compete with Be'lakor, a battle the DPoC loses.

[Sception]

If the opponent isn't targeting the prince in the first place because they'd rather shoot your greater daemons, then there's not much difference between 8 and 10 wounds anyway, and if you're running them in a daemons army then you're still much better off with the daemon version because you aren't using the <Legion> buff, nor do you have good targets for Prescience or Warptime.

 

And if you aren't doing a monster mash, the untargetability of princes at 8 wounds again becomes a good thing.  I know the options for viable daemon armies outside of that look a little iffy at the moment, but hopefully that should clear up a bit in the future.

Edited July 3, 2017 by malisteen

[Chronozoah]

I thought the All is Dust rule was fairly self-explanatory myself, that part of the FAQ didn't really tell me anything I didn't already know. Exalted Sorcerers going up in points cost is a little unfortunate.

Edited July 3, 2017 by Chronozoah

[Sception]

unfortunate, but not unexpected.  would have preferred for regular sorcerers to come down in price instead, but still.

 

Definitive answer on the smoke question - you can advance & pop smoke - is nice.

Edited July 3, 2017 by malisteen

[Iron_Within]

 

Glad to finally have an official answer as to how to fight twice with 'zerkers.

I am so keen for this. I was playing the weaker interpretation, so this is huge for me.

I have missed this. Could you point me to where in the fsq you're referring?

[Chronozoah]

unfortunate, but not unexpected.  would have preferred for regular sorcerers to come down in price instead, but still.

Agreed.

 

It didn't look like they provided a stance on the issue of auras on characters riding Tzeentch discs.

[Prot]

I thought the All is Dust rule was fairly self-explanatory myself, that part of the FAQ didn't really tell me anything I didn't already know. Exalted Sorcerers going up in points cost is a little unfortunate.

 

It was pretty clear to me as well, but to be fair I noted some non-english interpretations of the codex worded it differently.

 

The price increase on Exalteds still confuses me. Tigurius is a boss at 3 pts more.

 

They also increased Disks for the sorcs, but the actual value in them is poor especially because they did not clarify whether it was intentional or not to turn the Rider into a "daemon" thus removing his own aura benefits.

[JamesI]

Why would anyone take an Exalted Sorcerer instead of Ahriman now?  By the time you pay for the Exalted's gear, he ends up being just a few points cheaper than Ahriman.

[Sception]

because you can take more than one exalted sorcerer.  Or you can take ahriman and an exalted sorcerer.  I guess.

 

Before wasn't exactly better, though.  Why would you ever take a regular sorcerer over an exalted one at the previous points, when exalted sorcerers were cheaper, had more wounds, an invulnerable save, and could cast two powers a turn?

[Prot]

I actually thought it was GW's way of being fluffy and showcasing the ease with which Thousand Sons could access Sorcs. With some other things being not too terribly good, it was a cool feature. 

 

Don't get me wrong it's not the end of the world. Thousand Sons (like everyone else) just need a rulebook to properly define them. But that's part of the growing pains of 8th and I still welcome it even if the main thrust of my army has moved from psychic might to... doing stuff with dust bunnies!

[Sception]

Except that thousand sons also get regular sorcerers, at the normal points cost.  Why even, if they're only ever supposed to take the exalteds?  Nah, exalted sorcerers are supposed to be sorcerers ++, they should have a higher points cost to go with it.  If I had to guess, I'd say there was probably a late stage points increase to our sorcerers, and it just didn't quite filter through to all our other sorcerer-adjacent units.

[Panzer]

I actually thought it was GW's way of being fluffy and showcasing the ease with which Thousand Sons could access Sorcs. With some other things being not too terribly good, it was a cool feature. 

 

Don't get me wrong it's not the end of the world. Thousand Sons (like everyone else) just need a rulebook to properly define them. But that's part of the growing pains of 8th and I still welcome it even if the main thrust of my army has moved from psychic might to... doing stuff with dust bunnies!

Fluff has no place in points tho.

They could have shown that by giving TSons Sorcerer in the Elite slot (although one can just spam HQs these days anyway), but making them cheaper would be a dumb decision.