Green tide

[Sviar]

Except for the pure fun of running a green tide, would it be a good choice against Tau or blobs of Guardsmen? How do you equip your green tide: with Choppas and Sluggas or Shootas or a mix of them?

How do you use them, as a speed bump, a distraction for you Nobz to make it up the board or as a brutal force that has goals to achieve?

And lets not forget the support, how do you support your green tide, would Kannons be a good idea?   

 

[Warhead01]

Except for the pure fun of running a green tide, would it be a good choice against Tau or blobs of Guardsmen? How do you equip your green tide: with Choppas and Sluggas or Shootas or a mix of them?

How do you use them, as a speed bump, a distraction for you Nobz to make it up the board or as a brutal force that has goals to achieve?

And lets not forget the support, how do you support your green tide, would Kannons be a good idea?   

I can't answer if it's any good against the Tau or Blob IG in 8th edition. 

What do you have to work with? How many Boys? How many Mobs? 

 

You might be better off with an old school Kan wall. (Walkers and boys.) 

IG are squishy. I don't know what to expect from the Tau this edition.

[HeresyBeliever]

Full mobs of 29+Nob (PL13 200Points inc claw) All with Choppas 3 attacks base + 1 for mobs of 20+ +1 is Ghaz is within 6 inch

 

 

Either use a weird boy to jump the units forward or just charge forward! you need to get into combat If they are going to be a static gun line you need to use a few weird boys to get more than 1 mob in their face. only one will be shot down by the next turn if you fail your charge. 

 

The old ork saying of boys before toys is very true in 8th. 

 

Lootas can give good cover fire (only use in points games PL is to high) and the Naughts give the enemy something big to shoot at to buy you some time to get into combat. 

 

Bikes are always a good support but depends on how many points you have

[Warhead01]

Full mobs of 29+Nob (PL13 200Points inc claw) All with Choppas 3 attacks base + 1 for mobs of 20+ +1 is Ghaz is within 6 inch

 

 

Either use a weird boy to jump the units forward or just charge forward! you need to get into combat If they are going to be a static gun line you need to use a few weird boys to get more than 1 mob in their face. only one will be shot down by the next turn if you fail your charge. 

 

The old ork saying of boys before toys is very true in 8th. 

 

Lootas can give good cover fire (only use in points games PL is to high) and the Naughts give the enemy something big to shoot at to buy you some time to get into combat. 

 

Bikes are always a good support but depends on how many points you have

Ghaz if you like but you'r going to need a way for him to keep up. unless he has the same Movement. (I've not bothered to look.) 

But might as well throw in another weirdboy for warpath. Problem is how much fire power are you expecting to be on the receiving end of? 

A turn one assault is brilliant if you can pull it off but I'd have a back up plan and set up one massive turn two assault. So, I'd also bring one or two units of grot, 30 strong.

You might also bring several units of storm boys, with luck the opponent wont know what they are.

 

Might be good to have a few KFF Big Meks on Warbikes too. Not really for the trros but for the units that plan to assault. plink off some of that overwatch fire.  

 

Edited July 4, 2017 by Warhead01

[Redtoof]

Lots of boyz seems good. They won't struggle to kill infantry if they get there. Some combination of force field meks, painboyz/mad doc, Warboss and wierdboy with jump to increase speed and survivability will be good.

 

Kannons are nice but they are low to the ground so unless you have favourable terrain a green tide will block their line of sight. Kans and Dreads would seem a more obvious accompaniment to the green tide, but the points will add up fast. Something like deffkoptas might be another option to add some firepower and speed. Splitting a few of your big units and loading the into trukks or battlewagons could also be useful.

 

I think something worth considering would be a couple of trukks full of tankbustas. These boyz really even the odds against heavy armour, which is something that can slow your boyz down. Whatever you pick to go with the boyz, I'd focus on things that kill big tough models that the boyz will take some time to struggle though.

[HeresyBeliever]

Kannons aren't as good now. 

Kans are good but a little pricey.

 

I have a 1000 point game coming up and my ork list is

 

1 x warboss Big Choppa

1 x Weird boy

1 x Nob with Banner

1 x Kill tank

3 x 25 boys + Nob with Big choppa

 

1000 points is not a lot in 8th but always boys before toys. 

[Warhead01]

I just made a list for a "tide". We're having a tournament in October at 1750 points, annual event for the club. 
Well... I'm going to try. 

1 warboss with power Klaw and Kustum shoota, 

2 weird boys

8 Big Guns - Kannons. (Might change this a bit.)

7 Mobs of 30 boys Nobs with Big Choppas

1 Mob of 20 shoota boys 2 Big shootas and Big choppa Nob.

242 models. 

I'm tempted to drop the Kannons and my 2 Big shootas for enough points for 30 grot and 10 more boys. 
Maybe a WAAAGH Banner Nob would be better.  I think the Key thing is to make sure the boys are effective.

Maybe 2 WAAAGH Banner Nobs, dropping the 20 shoota boys and keeping the kannons? 

 

Could drop the shoota boys completely, Keep the Kannons and take 2 30 strong mobs of Grot and 1 WAAAAGH banner Nob. 2 points under. 

283 models. 

Sure it's fun but is it art...  

[Chaplain Lucifer]

242 Models will be a pain to move. ;) You'l be lucky to finish a game! But then again all those models will assure you will have the game won even if you don't finish it.

[Warhead01]

I'd thought about that. It wasn't the point but I did think about that. (  I just love the idea of shutting down my usual opponents game ) I think I'm more likely to use 4 gull mobs and 1 full mob of grot. I still want other units. I think that's give me enough points for some Gorkanauts. I've been slow played before, it sucks. 

I don't know that we couldn't finish a game of 8th if I brought that. seems like 8th plays a little faster. (  does it?)

[HeresyBeliever]

242 Models will be a pain to move. You'l be lucky to finish a game! But then again all those models will assure you will have the game won even if you don't finish it.

Movement trays are now your best friend if you are an ork player. I went for banks for 5 models. Has cut my ork boys movement time by 80%

[Chaplain Lucifer]

I like the idea of movement trays and with blasts gone they are probably more useful now. :tu:

[toaae]

Something to keep in mind with Boyz mobs is that we're no longer locked into sluggas or shootas for the whole unit. Each boy can switch to a shoota. I would think it would be useful in these 30 boy mobs to have some kind of mix.

[Warhead01]

Question. How many full mobs would be reasonable? I mentioned 7 in my quick list how about 4 or 5? I know you can mix units but I'm not sure that's a good way to go. What is it doing for you? You can move and shoot Advance and shoot even assault but mixing you unit seems to me to handicap it self. Kinda the same reason not to mix Rockits and Big Shootas in a mob. 
I choose Slugga boys because all they have to do is advance and then charge as quickly as I can get them close enough. Not a whole lot of extra thinking needed. 
I do like Shoota boys mobs. I just see rolling 3+ (or 2+) to hit as better.  
I guess I'm not overly inclined to play a Green Tide list so much as a Kan wall/Dreads and Boys. But there are so many good units right now. Nobs, Burna Boys Kommands. (I'd totally drop a few mobs for a few mobs of Kommands. (Shame I forgot all about them in my quick list. That'll speed the game up for sure. lol.)

[toaae]

Mixing shootas and sluggas is more a thought of "how many shoota boyz can I get into melee on the charge?" Any time slugga boyz aren't in melee, they are strictly inferior to shoota boyz, who, even when trying to reach the enemy as quick as possible, can still fire their shootas (at -1BS when advancing). On the other hand, shootas aren't nearly as bad in melee as sluggas are at ranged, still having the two base attacks and the bonus for mob size, only losing one for the choppa and the possibility of firing their pistols on your next turn.

Now, if you could always guarantee that you could get 20+ of those footslogging boyz within 1" of being within 1" of an enemy, then the extra attacks with choppas at the better to-hit value of the weapon skill would probably be worth running as all sluggas. But if you can only normally get 10 boyz in range on the charge, then maybe it would have been better to have had the rest of the mob rocking shootas, if for no other reason than to put out some firepower on the turns across the board. Hell, even if you run 20+ sluggas, putting some shoota boyz at the back of the mob can at least give you some better ability to shoot, and if you feel like you'd still rather have choppas, take casualties from the shootas first.

Finally, and this is a personal opinion (as the rest of this was, I suppose), but for 8 points vs. 6 points, I think I'd rather have Stormboyz over pure slugga boyz.

Last thing, there is no reason not to mix rokkits and big shootas in a mob, since every single model can split fire independently. 

Edited July 6, 2017 by toaae

[Warhead01]

Mixing shootas and sluggas is more a thought of "how many shoota boyz can I get into melee on the charge?" Any time slugga boyz aren't in melee, they are strictly inferior to shoota boyz, who, even when trying to reach the enemy as quick as possible, can still fire their shootas (at -1BS when advancing). On the other hand, shootas aren't nearly as bad in melee as sluggas are at ranged, still having the two base attacks and the bonus for mob size, only losing one for the choppa and the possibility of firing their pistols on your next turn.

 

Now, if you could always guarantee that you could get 20+ of those footslogging boyz within 1" of being within 1" of an enemy, then the extra attacks with choppas at the better to-hit value of the weapon skill would probably be worth running as all sluggas. But if you can only normally get 10 boyz in range on the charge, then maybe it would have been better to have had the rest of the mob rocking shootas, if for no other reason than to put out some firepower on the turns across the board. Hell, even if you run 20+ sluggas, putting some shoota boyz at the back of the mob can at least give you some better ability to shoot, and if you feel like you'd still rather have choppas, take casualties from the shootas first.

 

Finally, and this is a personal opinion (as the rest of this was, I suppose), but for 8 points vs. 6 points, I think I'd rather have Stormboyz over pure slugga boyz.

 

Last thing, there is no reason not to mix rokkits and big shootas in a mob, since every single model can split fire independently. 

I understand what your saying but don't really agree. It would grok if Shootas cost points. What is the point of the inferior slugga boy in a mixed mob? They contribute very little. for the cost why not just take a full mob of shootas. More shots should create more hits. If you were paying for the shootas above the cost of the slugga boys a mixed mob sounds "better" as I would imagine we'd be taking the slugga boys as casualties from the mob first.  I see no gain from a mixed unit. 

The issue I have with mixed special weapons is the to hit roll. If you believe luck will see you through then go for it. It's never worked that way for me. I need weight of dice to make things happen. Even with current split fire I'd take the same special weapons in every unit. I agree about the Storm boys. I only have a little over 40 of them so far I'm planning to get more maybe fill out 2 more full mobs. I'm tempted to try several mobs of Komanndos supported by shoota boys.  

Lastly, and this cracked me up, you said shoot across the table referencing a weapon with an 18" range.  

One thing I don't think we've mentioned about playing a Horde army is deployment.  

In my own experience you should consider the task of the units and the range as well as where it is you want them to go. 

I prefer to deploy towards the center with my slugga boys and the left and right with my shoota boys. It's easier to shift half my army towards opposing units than shift my while army.

 

I'm enjoying this discussion. 

[toaae]

I had to reread my post to see what I meant by shooting across the board. I wasn't too clear, but I meant that shootas can put out some damage while the boyz go across the board.

I also haven't actually experimented with mixed mobs yet, as I've always been in favor of shootas boyz, and thats what I run in my big mobs. But I think it might have some merit. At the very least, I want to see how it does, since it wasn't an option before.

[Chaplain Lucifer]

I kind of see the use of mixed mobs. As you go forward, shootas do their thing and they are removed as casualties leaving the choppas to do their thing.

 

If you have only sluggas you have no firepower so to speak and if you have only shootas you will have less CC muscle so, in theory a mixed mob of shootas and sluggas will let you "costumise" as the situation dictates by removing as casualties the ones you need the less.

That's my theory anyway. No plan ever survives contact with the enemy.

[Sviar]

Sorry for the late reply, real life brought me away from the internet a while. Thanks for the answers. I have enjoyed the disscusions here and Chaplain Lucifer made a (IMHO) good point that the tides doesn't always or rarely get in CC without loosing a few Orks along the way. So I'm thinking of putting 7-10 Shootas in the front, and they would be the first to go, if they manage to shoot something while running at the enemy that's fine but I wonr rely on it.    

[toaae]

Don't put them at the front, though. One of the best things to happen to da boyz in 8th was the return of you choosing wound allocation, instead of pulling from the front. Put the shootas at the back, so as you pull them, you don't lose ground to the enemy.

[Sviar]

Thanks Toaae for cathing that.

I haven't really been studying the rules that much. I'll try to improve that. 

[Canadian_F_H]

I like the idea of mixed mobs because it definitly matches the disorganized rabble look I expect from orks. But this game can be tedious so identifying which boys are shooty or choppy when necessary is a tad more work when they aren't uniform across a mob... so in some of y'all's examples 6 mobs of 30 could be 3 each of shooty or choppy. But now y'all can run 6 mobs of mix 15shooty 15choppy. Which now that I think of it reduces the enemies though process on target priority as all mobs are equal so just shoot based on position and remaining strength. Edited July 7, 2017 by Canadian_F_H