Advice vs Tyranids.

[Gendo]

Playing my first game ever vs Nids tomorrow and don't have their codex.

 

What should i expect as in movement capabilities, armour saves and quantity of units vs size of units (2k game)?

 

At the moment I'm using 2 large Crusader squads (in a shoot and charge configuration) with 3 heavy fire squads and various elites and transports, should i go smaller CC units?

[Cryptix]

Shoot the big ones  .

In all seriousness, while there's a hierarchy of damage in the Tyranid codex, you also have to watch for fast moving jammers - raveners, hormagaunts, etc.

[Halandaar]

I can't speak for what the average 2k list looks like at the moment, but if feels like keeping these buggers at distance is what you want. Their specialist melee troops are very quick and very bitey, and their monsters got all round upgrades to their survivability.

 

Watch out for Genestealers; Movement 8", can charge after advancing, hit on 3's with 3 attacks each (4 each if there are more than 10 in the unit) that are AP-4 on a 6 to wound, baked in 5+ invulnerable save against everything and for a meagre 12 points apiece. Optional upgrade makes their AP-4 attacks do 2 Damage each, and likely recipients of a psychic power that gives them a 5+ "Feel No Pain" equivalent. Broodlords are also Synapse creatures now, so Genestealers don't need additional babysitting.

 

As for Synapse itself, the reason you want them dead is because units with 8" of Synapse Creatures automatically pass morale tests. Instinctive Behaviour is nowhere near as punishing as it used to be (just means Tyranids outside synapse range who opt to charge or shoot have to target the nearest enemy to do so) so there's not any value to taking out Synapse lynchpins hoping that units will just scuttle around eating themselves like they used to.

[Stemplar]

I just played Tyranids today. Rough day at the office for the lads. Big lesson was take the big guns and shoot as many wounds as you can before getting in with for CC. The big ones with lots of pointy bits are crazy bad ... all sorts of special rolls and rules.

 

Venerable dreadnought with lascannons did good (that combat weapon is awesome) and my LRC was great value. Multi meltas and flamers also good. Other than that ... Not so much.

 

Good luck brother!!!

[Gendo]

I just played Tyranids today. Rough day at the office for the lads. Big lesson was take the big guns and shoot as many wounds as you can before getting in with for CC. The big ones with lots of pointy bits are crazy bad ... all sorts of special rolls and rules.

 

Venerable dreadnought with lascannons did good (that combat weapon is awesome) and my LRC was great value. Multi meltas and flamers also good. Other than that ... Not so much.

 

Good luck brother!!!

 

- Taking 3 Twin AC (LRC + 2 Razorback) a Grav and a Melta Squad.

- 3x 15 man Crusader sq with flamers, Heavy Bolters and Power weapon, plus 4 bolters to dish out the damage as i advance and discard as i   take casualties.

- Jump pack Vanguard vets with Hammers and Claws

- And our trio of HQ's with Cenobytes and Apothecary ;)

 

Should have enough shots to deal massive damage before i get into CC, do they have any ability to snipe my characters?

[Stemplar]

The guy I played had no snipers, but there is one ferocious looking beast that can burrow up right beside you and inflict mortal wounds.

 

My Vanguard dropped like flies (one wound each ain't much). Maybe worth keeping them back until the shooting thins out the stocks. Then bring the ZEAL! Claws are Good, chainswords did very little even with extra attacks.

 

Let me know how you get on! A full battle report please brother!

[Gendo]

My Tyranid opponent rescheduled and had a last minute Ad Mech game, got shot off the table without getting into charge distance ;(

 

He thinks my list wouldn't have worked vs Nids, but I thought otherwise as they would have wanted to move forward hence in range of all my shooting before getting into combat.

[Jacques Corbin]

I would say "shooty" Crusader Squad of Plasma Cannons, Plasma gun, Combi Plasma, and 1 Neophyte with a Shotgun in a Razorback with Twin Assault Cannons.

 

Also, Ironclad with Chainfist, Assault Launchers, and either 2 Heavy Flamers or Heavy Flamer and Meltagun. No Drop Pod option anymore, but take a Stormraven and Hammernators. Fly over the advancing horde, and drop off your dread and sword brothers in TDA.

[Marshal_Roujakis]

Now that you've mentioned it... think the Dread Drop Pods will be back in the Codex?

[Gendo]

Finally got a game vs Nyds, needles to say I got wiped off the table in 3 turns mostly by 4 tough psykers always getting off abilities vs vehicles and characters, so far I'm no liking 8th :(

[Brother Talarian]

Finally got a game vs Nyds, needles to say I got wiped off the table in 3 turns mostly by 4 tough psykers always getting off abilities vs vehicles and characters, so far I'm no liking 8th :(

Hey man, tough luck. Have faith, I'm sure your luck will turn. You mind providing more feedback as to how the game went?

 

Did you use chapter tactics + BT stratagem? If not I'm sure they'd really help out if you do.

If you did... you must have had horrible luck haha.

 

What did they run/you run?

 

It seems as if you play in a pretty competitive meta :/

[Brother Christopher]

Things should get better when we get our Stratagem.

 

Having said that, I do feel that we are lacking in competitive play solely on account of us not making use of filthy witches (and missing out on an entire game phase, or actually two if you make a proper BT list and focus on chopping the enemy down).

 

In a competitive environment, this may be annoying as psychers, in their exclusive phase, are able to cast 1-2 powers each AND do stuff in all the remaining phases. I really think that 5th Edition handled magic better. In this regard, I still consider the rules "broken" (or maybe "inconsiderate"), as despite all the good that 8th brought, you still need to take psychers in order to build a good, balanced list (not to mention competitive) because there are virtually no downsides to doing so, considering how cheap they are, the quality of the buffs they offer or even simply how easily they can dish mortal wounds out.

 

It is a shame, really, that we have to resort to our "metagaming" zeal in order to compensate for such quirks in the game's system. It's a good thing that we have this zeal, without the need to buy books or roll dice.

[Gendo]

Things should get better when we get our Stratagem.

 

Having said that, I do feel that we are lacking in competitive play solely on account of us not making use of filthy witches (and missing out on an entire game phase, or actually two if you make a proper BT list and focus on chopping the enemy down).

 

In a competitive environment, this may be annoying as psychers, in their exclusive phase, are able to cast 1-2 powers each AND do stuff in all the remaining phases. I really think that 5th Edition handled magic better. In this regard, I still consider the rules "broken" (or maybe "inconsiderate"), as despite all the good that 8th brought, you still need to take psychers in order to build a good, balanced list (not to mention competitive) because there are virtually no downsides to doing so, considering how cheap they are, the quality of the buffs they offer or even simply how easily they can dish mortal wounds out.

 

It is a shame, really, that we have to resort to our "metagaming" zeal in order to compensate for such quirks in the game's system. It's a good thing that we have this zeal, without the need to buy books or roll dice.

 

Yeah, all I've got going for my army is my LRC with Helbrecht which everyone either avoids or shoots in one turn, on paper it was a fair fight but 12 wounds psykers which (didn't know) can cast to units engaged in combat wasn't fair, also all my las cannons and meltas failing wasn't lucky either.

I'll surely ally with sisters, shield of faith it's free from a non psyker at all.

 

Edit: not only can't defend properly vs psykers but we can't even target characters (which psykers can) plus we don't deal any damage in the phase, an extremely effective and free deny would be the least...

Edited July 26, 2017 by Gendo

[Marshal_Roujakis]

 

Things should get better when we get our Stratagem.

 

Having said that, I do feel that we are lacking in competitive play solely on account of us not making use of filthy witches (and missing out on an entire game phase, or actually two if you make a proper BT list and focus on chopping the enemy down).

 

In a competitive environment, this may be annoying as psychers, in their exclusive phase, are able to cast 1-2 powers each AND do stuff in all the remaining phases. I really think that 5th Edition handled magic better. In this regard, I still consider the rules "broken" (or maybe "inconsiderate"), as despite all the good that 8th brought, you still need to take psychers in order to build a good, balanced list (not to mention competitive) because there are virtually no downsides to doing so, considering how cheap they are, the quality of the buffs they offer or even simply how easily they can dish mortal wounds out.

 

It is a shame, really, that we have to resort to our "metagaming" zeal in order to compensate for such quirks in the game's system. It's a good thing that we have this zeal, without the need to buy books or roll dice.

 

Yeah, all I've got going for my army is my LRC with Helbrecht which everyone either avoids or shoots in one turn, on paper it was a fair fight but 12 wounds psykers which (didn't know) can cast to units engaged in combat wasn't fair, also all my las cannons and meltas failing wasn't lucky either.

I'll surely ally with sisters, shield of faith it's free from a non psyker at all.

 

Edit: not only can't defend properly vs psykers but we can't even target characters (which psykers can) plus we don't deal any damage in the phase, an extremely effective and free deny would be the least...

 

 

When we get the Strategem, which would be sometime this Saturday, we should have a Deny The Witch roll of 4+ if the psyker casts a power within 24" of a Black Templar unit for 1 Command Point... that means units engaged in combat can deny buffs against the unit they're fighting with just a 4+ and a Command Point spent... Sisters of Battle might be good, but Sisters of Silence are the only ones with the equivalent of this psyker defense... so just wait Saturday if your meta is psyker heavy... you'll be tearing down witches inn no time ;)

 

Also, you might be having issues with High damage low rate of fire weapons, especially if your Lascannons and Meltaguns don't have readily available reroll to Hit... try going for Assault Cannons and Autocannons for your next game against the gribblies...

 

I also find that if applied force isn't enough to remove your problem, then your force isn't enough so multiply it...

I remember when I was new to the gaming and was an absolute blunt anvil, I was constantly losing games, making lists that was purely built around brute force, making Death Star units that run around the table not really killing anything since majority runs from it, usually getting shot off the table or tabled mostly because of really bad tactics...

 

But instead of just relearning tactics, or using much more efficient units or even changing dice... I just bought Forge World models instead... so I won the next few games, mainly because no one could deal with a Thunder Hawk, and a Stormeagle and 2 Talons... or 1 Spartan with a 10-man Assault Terminator Squad and 2 Plasma Predators that can ignore cover... I received massive notoriety at the gaming table (became THAT guy), but I told everyone how fed up I was at losing so they ended up with helping me out with my games without FW units... now I seldom use them... but I'm not saying copy what I did, but that's just a suggestion :p

 

Try more army saturation and ask for advice... I'm not really sure what kind of list you were facing, nor the list that you brought, but it all depends on that and the tactics you've used... Nids can be a pain if you don't really know what you're dealing with, so I suggest getting an open copy and having a look at the units they have and their special ability so you can be more prepared next time... I also recommend posting your list so that we can help with increasing its efficiency and so that you can have an idea of what you're missing and what you could possibly get next...

 

as for psyker defense... wait Saturday then get the new Codex, or get Sisters of Silence and/or a Culexus Asssassin (Vindicare works too)

[Gendo]

Thanks for the advice, my army is mostly 1 wound and upgraded, I have multi wound and tougher models but I'm waiting for charge rerolls to bring them in.

 

I had:

Lrc fully loaded with EC and Techmarine and 2x 7 man squads with 4 P.swords and 2 Meltas

Razorback with Flamer, Chaplain with 5 man squad with 2 axe and 1 flamer

Razorback with AC and 6 mans squad with 1 axe and flamer

las predator

Autocannon Ven Dread with fist and flamer

1x 10 man squad with 2 gravguns and 2 bolters

1x 10 man squad with 1 plasma 2 bolters 

Helbrecht on foot by the LRC

 

I usually run 2 Rhinos but I wanted to bait a charge into the Razorbacks with flamer on top and flamers inside once disembarked, all within Chaplain, other vehicle to stay close and get aura from him.

2 on foot squads because I was expecting a combat army, which it was except all the psyker firepower.

 

Got fed 2 large units of scrubs to the LRC with no real target for meltas, which they died pretty quickly and then i was under fire when exposed.

Razorback units and on foot ones on the other side were charged by these large flyer/psykers with genestealers waiting their moment to clean up.

His firepower came mostly from psykers dealing multiple wounds to Characters and vehicles even before the combat phase, most of his large units were down to 1-2 wounds, i did focus them but wasn't enough dice karma and i also wanted to carve into genestealers with multiple shot weapons. 

The Dreadnought was the MVP once again shrugging off multiple wounds from genestealers and psykers and with the Techmarine was the last standing, also Techmarine repaired the Pred to full health just before it got swarmed...

Came down to positioning at the end as everybody runs away from my LRC no matter what I put to distract them and the rest was held back dealing with flyers and advancing genestealers, having too many 10+ wound models and psykers across the table to deal with was a loosing battle.

As brother Honda once said, I need two+ LRC, maybe same loadout as now but swords with Helbrecht and Axes with Chaplain.  

[Gendo]

Last stand.

 

 

[Gendo]

This was easy, down a corridor to prevent a flank on the Pred, while the tougher units moved away :(