Who is still buying normal marines?

[General Strike]

Unless Primaris get a major boost in the Codex, they aren't good enough to run on their own. I plan to use Bikes instead of Inceptors, and will probably pick up some Veterans and Dreadnoughts. 

[deathspectersgt7]

At range yes up close they die quick . They are lousy in cc.

[Blindhamster]

a 5 man unit has 11 attacks, which is the same number of attacks as a 5 man assault squad. Neither unit is designed for close combat, but at least intercessors don't pretend to be close combat units.

obviously worth noting that you get 6 assault marines and the sergeant gets a power sword, all with jump packs for the cost of 5 intercessors of course.

But equally, an assault marine probably died before the assault marines can get close enough to charge when intercessors have 30" range guns vs assault marines 12" range.

 

Edited July 20, 2017 by Blindhamster

[deathspectersgt7]

Never implied they were a CC unit .  

[Blindhamster]

nah i know, I was just pointing out that they are very similar in performance to assault marines for actual melee effectiveness*

 

*They suck at getting there by comparison though.

[Ishagu]

 

 

They are clearly the best unit to grab objectives now.

 

Why? What makes them better than (say) a Tactical Squad or a unit of Devastators or sniper Scouts?

Tougher, cheaper, can steal objectives from hordes.

 

Because of the rule "for the Emperor" a single surviving Intercessor on an objective will count as holding it even if surrounded by 20 enemies.

Edited July 20, 2017 by Ishagu

[Bloody Legionnaire]

 

 

They are clearly the best unit to grab objectives now.

Why? What makes them better than (say) a Tactical Squad or a unit of Devastators or sniper Scouts?

Tougher, cheaper, can steal objectives from hordes.

 

Because of the rule "for the Emperor" a single surviving Intercessor on an objective will count as holding it even if surrounded by 20 enemies.

 

Yes.. that is a great rule but then the Primaris Marines just don't resonate well with me in their implementation. So these brand new Super Elite Marines.. that are supposed to  be superior than "regular" Marines are really best used just as objective campers? That doesn't feel very "tactical" to me. It winds up feeling very meh.. 

[Blindhamster]

Seriously... compared to a tactical squad of similar points (100) the intercessors are easily a better option.

 

The real issue is that marines of all kinds are not as resilient as they once were and still cost as much as if they were.

 

A tactical squad with all the options is really just 7 ablative wounds for 3 models that are remotely useful.

Edited July 20, 2017 by Blindhamster

[General Strike]

Yeah, across the board stuff just dies easier, and gaining survivability isn't easy anymore either. My focus from now is just to bring as much death as possible in my few models. It's why I'm starting to look at regular marines even though I want a pure Primaris force, because unless Inceptors get a price cut or the Plasma ones are super good, it won't be worth bringing them when bikes are way cheaper and just as mean. It really comes down to what the codex does for us. I plan to pick up the codex and not buy anything, and if stuff is still expensive, I plan to mentally experiment and wait for new Primaris kits that fill gaps, and focus on some Khârn and World Eaters goodies. Right now, regular marines are just able to bring stuff Primaris can't, such as melee units(such as vanguard and such) but also just have options the Primaris aren't even close to having. It's seriously looking like Primaris get Bolt Rifle variations, Plasma variations, one type of flamer gauntlet, and the onslaught cannons. Maybe the Redemptor will be a stable enough Plasma platform to work well as anti-armor, but I think it will be like the Hellblasters which are fire magnets. 

 

Guard can bring a lascannon and put tons of ablative wounds around it for much cheaper than we can. In a 2000 point list we are outnumbered and they gain access to much more firepower than us. I think CT's and Strategems will help, and I think we will see point changes in the codex, but I doubt marines will be Skyhammer level anymore. I think the fear of Primaris is over stated, I think we are going to get a ton of releases, but unless the Primaris drop in price, get a cheap transport, and/or the average points level for 8th goes up to 2500-3000, they aren't a true threat to the flexibility, options, and bits and bobs goodness of regular marines. I love both sets of marines, I grew up reading these novels and always loved Astartes. I love the Primaris models, and I think the lore is pretty cool, and while I have the fear that GW might be crazy enough to drop regular marines, after having my butt kicked using Primaris in my games, I think it won't be viable. At least some of our units have MAJOR flaws that make them less usable on their own.

 

I like these things:

A Primaris list focusing heavily on Redemptors, Aggressors, Reivers, and Intercessors with nothing else.

A Mixed list using a Vanguard and a Outrider to bring a bunch of Vanguard Vets, Assault Squads and Inceptors

A Primaris list using no Intercessors

 

but they cost so much that a really important part of list building is hard, redundancy.  We shall see how wrong I am when we have the codex.

[Arkangilos]

Considering the cost difference, standard marines will still be my standard buy :p