MEQ Horde

[Iron_Within]

So I've been thinking, does the idea of a MEQ horde have legs in this edition? With Chaos Space Marine units being cheaper and Havocs being much better and chosen still being somewhat viable along with Terminators being decent, is MEQ (and TEQ support) viable? I figure you could easily get 70 MEQ in a 2k list including Havocs. What are peoples thoughts?

[Brother Aiwass]

You can get 100 berzerkers in 2k points, not sure how a CSM horde would fare (probably bad).

[Commissar K.]

It's certainly possible but the SM have some serious advantages over us, in being:
- Razorbacks
- Primaris Space Marines (upgraded MEQ)
- Acces to more Dreadnoughts
- Acces to better Astra Militarum stuff (if they want to)

So I think you can go for it, with a Chaos Lord/Khârn/Abaddon supporting your essential gun-troops but at the same time I also think that adding Psykers to your Chaos army makes the Chaos Army. As mentioned in other topics, the Chaos Psycic Lists are arguably the better ones, if not the best, in the game. From Warp Time to Precience to Death Guard's Miasma, Plague Wind against Hordes to Daemonic Stream of Corruption, Fleshy Abundance on Daemonic Engines of Nurgle, Symphony of Pain and Hysterical Frenzy attacks in the Psycic phase.

From a designers point of view, the moral for Chaos seems to use those Daemonic Engines and thus more or less steer away from MEQ designs, as the prime advantage we have over SM is that we have a ton of usefull Psycic powers to use, which when not used really remove our units from being the best as they could be within the faction.

The point Im trying to bring across is that while we have some MEQ parts, we have much more available synergy to our non-MEQ designs. In addition to all of that Chaos is much more combined arms designed as SM or in general Imperium because we don't suck eggs in combat. 

[Trevak Dal]

I haven't faced them, but I'm not too sure about Primaris Marines. They cost more, for an extra wound, extra attack and rifled Bolters.

 

They don't hit better in close combat or in shooting, and the only appreciable difference is really in close combat, but by then odds are they would have lost a few off their 5 man squad before it comes to fisticuffs. Yeah they got as many wounds as a 10 man ctac squad, but they die to high volume of fire.

[Commissar K.]

Range 30 Rapid fire vs 24 is big though and the way most objectives are set up remain to give durability an edge. Reaching melee to SM remains difficult due to Razorbacks and w/o Warp Time or melee units its not likely from the MEQ chaos side either.

 

Now if we go combined arms Chaos things to me the odds look more favourable in general but then the Chaos player isnt playing typical MEQ anymore ;)

Range 30 Rapid fire vs 24 is big though and the way most objectives are set up remain to give durability an edge. Reaching melee to SM remains difficult due to Razorbacks and w/o Warp Time or melee units its not likely from the MEQ chaos side either.

 

Now if we go combined arms Chaos things to me the odds look more favourable in general but then the Chaos player isnt playing typical MEQ anymore ;)

[Brother Aiwass]

OP: if you the meatgrinder way, make to take long range fire support. You have plenty in the FW chaos index: deredeos, whirlwind scorpius, renegade wyverns and so on.

[the jeske]

So I've been thinking, does the idea of a MEQ horde have legs in this edition? With Chaos Space Marine units being cheaper and Havocs being much better and chosen still being somewhat viable along with Terminators being decent, is MEQ (and TEQ support) viable? I figure you could easily get 70 MEQ in a 2k list including Havocs. What are peoples thoughts?

only viable if it can deal with other swarms and has the fire power to deal with flyer lists.

[Galron]

Havocs and Scorpius tanks continue to be my MVPs. I use a fair amount of infantry just to fill out the battalion. As quickly as marines get pulled off the board I am not sure the viability of large squads vs multiple smaller squads. I used a full raptor squad with lord in my last game and even with fire support from several tac squads, a lord with terminator squad, havoc and scorpius, they were still whittled down to the sergeant and lord by the end. They weren't even concentrated on. Vehicle overwatch is insane and with no minimum range even a manticore is nasty when charged. I use raptors as an example as they are MEQs and they even have the advantage of speed and deep strike to get where they are going.

 

Now I am curious if there was a way to transport 20 marines to an objective how well they would do. Oh wait, we do. I think a Spartan cruising with a lord and 20 dudes might be an effective use of points. Maybe I will give it a try this weekend with my IW. It would at least negate the slogging across the board and the attrition from being seen as a major threat.

[Commissar K.]

Havocs and Scorpius tanks continue to be my MVPs. I use a fair amount of infantry just to fill out the battalion. As quickly as marines get pulled off the board I am not sure the viability of large squads vs multiple smaller squads. I used a full raptor squad with lord in my last game and even with fire support from several tac squads, a lord with terminator squad, havoc and scorpius, they were still whittled down to the sergeant and lord by the end. They weren't even concentrated on. Vehicle overwatch is insane and with no minimum range even a manticore is nasty when charged. I use raptors as an example as they are MEQs and they even have the advantage of speed and deep strike to get where they are going.

 

Now I am curious if there was a way to transport 20 marines to an objective how well they would do. Oh wait, we do. I think a Spartan cruising with a lord and 20 dudes might be an effective use of points. Maybe I will give it a try this weekend with my IW. It would at least negate the slogging across the board and the attrition from being seen as a major threat.

Sounds solid enough to me, however as before I'd like to denote how not making use of Chaos' Psycic powers is not using one of it's mayor strenghts. One of the prime differences between MSU Chaos Space Marines and the regular MSU Space Marine units is that with ETSKNF (or what the rule is called now) your more likely to not be the victem of a poor Morale roll. Something Chaos still has to deal with and because of that typically and on average does not like the same 5-man squad approaches.

 

I really like Raptors because of how Fly and Flee works however I also think it is fair to say that for us Chaos players a larger advantage of a similar strategy can be found in Obliterators. Just ensure that a Chaos Lord or Sorcer is near them so you can use the Heroic Intervention to your advantage. This play on movement is also unique to Chaos as we have this to work with, Warp Time and Slaanesh Daemons even has the option to attack in the Psycic phase to push the advantage further.

 

A Spartan is a great option, just also again ask yourself what you can archive with Warp Time. Depending on what you want to play offcourse but keep in mind that not marking him does not mean you lose the Keyword <Mark of Chaos> which furthermore allows you to continue with an "unmarked" Theme which fits Iron Warriors, Night Lords and many more from a narrative perspective.

 

Perhaps even more important, consider what a Daemon Prince can do by itself with Wings, Talons and acces to Warp Time. You can ensure yourself that it will hunt down oppossing ranged models fast. To me Vechicles still have a great functionality though, which is to use them in your advantage for LoS blocking purposes. Things like parking them in such a way that the only visible target you can see is an oppossing Character or perhaps even better in the combined arms army, use them as LoS blocking pieces for Overwatch, for you do not need LoS to preform a charge. 

 

Lastly yes, we can also Warp Time our Transports.

Edited July 5, 2017 by Commissar K.

[Trevak Dal]

I suppose I'd care more about the 30" (15 rapid) if it was s5. The ap-1 is swell and all but they are paying premium points for these premium soldiers with premium guns. If someone is taking Primaris who can't use vehicles, then that's a good thing because they are taking less better things for their points.

 

My world eater army I was building after traitor legions came out was a "dispersed horde" and it was designed around maxing out a butcherhorde with msus of cheapish zerkers with a lot of Hero HQs running amok (Khârn, some Juggerlords and a daemon Prince or two) with maulerfiends and a baledrake.

 

The idea (in 7th) was to overwhelm target priority, and to be a spoiler army to eldar specifically. Everything being able to splitfire kinda kills that idea though in 8th...but zerkers got more good than bad.

[the jeske]

I have seen a very evil list that used primaris, IG dudes and FW weapon platforms, and two of the marine flyers [not the chopper and not the minithunderhawk]. But to be honest a lot of FW stuff tends to be rather good+ in w40k right now.

 

Maybe something like that could be done for chaos too. 20-30 meq dudes, 30-40 cultists, maximum havocks and support from fiends/dreads/weapon platforms. Cultists push back stuff, meq advance , dakka stuff does the dakka. Or maybe the support besides havocks could be drakes. 2 drakes, meq, havock/platform firebase, cultist as a chaff.

[Brother Aiwass]

For flying FW goodness, please, consider the flying predator annihilator, aka xiphon interceptor.