Stormwolf vs Crusader

[aluriel00]

I am building a Wolf Guard list and need a transport for a unit of wulfen. If you could get only one vehicle, would it be a Land Raider or a Stormwolf?

 

I want the Wulfen and Arjac Rockfist to accompany two units of Wolf Guard Bikes into close combat. What it does after dropping off its passengers is open as I assume the Stormwolf would be a good anti-flyer and the land raider would be good anti-horde.

 

The list consists of:

 

2 units of 5 Wolf Guard Bikes

1 unit of Wulfen in a ???????????

Arjac Rockfist

2 units of Wolf Guard with jump packs and storm bolters

1 unit of Wolf Guard with jump packs and combi-meltas

Bjorn with lascannons

[Brother Hellion]

It comes down to personal preference.

 

The stormwolf can get your guys to the front lines faster and can seriously hurt high toughness units but can be killed quickly by barrage firepower even as airborne. 

 

Land raiders (particularly the crusader and Redeemer variants) can take slightly more punishment with that +2 save and higher wound count and have enough fire power to mow down hordes. But Crusader/Redeemer lack strong weapon power to tackle the likes of demons and dreadnoughts. Even the standard variant can be out performed by the twin lascannon Razorbacks in Damage. 

 

Your list is a good start but with bjorn being your only long range support he'll be quickly targeted by artillery fire. So why not instead of just picking one can you bring both vechiles into the fight?

[Rune Priest Jbickb]

Theoretically a twin lascannon razor back should never out perform a land raider which has double the lascannons....

[NightHowler]

I think they were specifically talking about crusader or redeemer class, as opposed to the standard 2 twin-lascannon class landraider.

[Kasper_Hawser]

I am building a Wolf Guard list and need a transport for a unit of wulfen. If you could get only one vehicle, would it be a Land Raider or a Stormwolf?

 

I want the Wulfen and Arjac Rockfist to accompany two units of Wolf Guard Bikes into close combat. What it does after dropping off its passengers is open as I assume the Stormwolf would be a good anti-flyer and the land raider would be good anti-horde.

 

The list consists of:

 

2 units of 5 Wolf Guard Bikes

1 unit of Wulfen in a ???????????

Arjac Rockfist

2 units of Wolf Guard with jump packs and storm bolters

1 unit of Wolf Guard with jump packs and combi-meltas

Bjorn with lascannons

 

Bjorn seems a bit out of place in a list that is mostly fast. 

 

However, if you use the Land Raider to transport Wulfen, then Bjorn can buff the Land Raider's accuracy, and at the same time run/advance along side it. He has quite a big movement if I'm not mistaken, and can use the huge Land Raider to buff his save to 2+. Meanwhile your bikes and jump packs can provide multiple targets, but I suggest you deep strike them to distract them or put them behind cover rather than running up the board. 

[Nharvey89]

I am having the same issue myself and have given myself till Friday to work it out, the fact you can advance and pop smoke means that for survivability the crusader does out class the storm wolf, at least on the turn you pop smoke. I'm more looking for the storm wolf because of the extra movement, get it so close to the enemy that if it blows up it may mortal wound their army. Also it should take soo much fire power to take down that it would have done its job, delivering the cargo safely in range for a turn 2 charge.

Also consider taking the jump packs off a 5 man unit of wolf guard and stick them in with your wulfen. If it does blow and u loose some men you can take them from the wolf guard instead of losing a wulfen.

[aluriel00]

Thank you for the responses.

 

@Brotherblur - I'm afraid that bringing both vehicles is prohibited by their high price, in both dollars and points. The cost of either is easily more than the cost of another Wulfen pack and I don't think either can do as much damage. Adding two of one or one of both would change the army makeup so significantly that its entire focus would change. Besides, there is only room for one in the family budget.

 

@Brotherblur - It is my understanding that targeting Bjorn is very difficult as he is a character. I will be thrilled, however, if they focus fire on him for one turn as a significant amount of close combat specialists hit them on turn two.

 

@Nighthowler - I had been thinking of either the redeemer or crusader but not for any particular reason. I have been looking at the vehicle for transport and was planning to use Bjorn and jet pack wolf guard for flyers and wolfen and bike thunder hammers for dreads and tanks. Plus, there is the highly mobile unit of jump pack wolf guard with melta.

 

@Kasper_Hawser - Is Bjorn out of place in this list? I'm very interested in hearing your thoughts on that. I thought he fit in well as a source of mobile heavy weapons fire who could keep close enough to the front to maintain his command aura. I suppose I could replace him with predators, but isn't he more durable due to being a character? I don't think replacing him with long fangs is workable at all as my opponents could simply deep strike next to them and take them all out. I could remove the heavy weapons altogether, but that seems like a severe case of putting all of my eggs in one basket.

 

@Nharvey89 - I can take extra wulfen in either vehicle but not a unit of wolf guard. 5 wulfen = 10 seats. Arjac in TDA = 2 seats. That leaves 4 seats left.

 

@Nharvey89 - I am considering another option. Double the number of wulfen and still charge on turn 2. Teleport Arjac into the area, but 9" away from the line. His aura should still reach the bikes due to the length of the models and he heroically intervenes on turn 3. The disadvantage of this is that I have 2-3 units for placement purposes rather than 1 with the land raider, making it harder to go first.

 

Thank you for all of your great comments. I'm leaning toward the land raider right now but I haven't ruled out the other two options by any means.

[Nharvey89]

Ah yeah forgot old Arjac, as you said though you could deep strike him, have you thought about trying to get a wolf priest in there to reroll all those misses, it's what Im thinking of going with, stacking the buffs all up for some super nasty melee

[ORKILL]

I'm running a similar build but using Logan instead of Bjorn.

[Karhedron]

What it does after dropping off its passengers is open as I assume the Stormwolf would be a good anti-flyer and the land raider would be good anti-horde.

The Stormwolf is no better against flyers than any other shooting. The normal "Hard to hit" rules for flyers work against all incoming fire, not just from the ground.

 

Some flyers such as the Stormhawk Interceptor have special rules granting them a +1 to hit flying targets (which basically cancels the "Hard to Hit") but this is specific to that unit, not a general rule for flyers targeting other flyers. Also it is not much help to the Space Wolves sadly.

[Brother Hellion]

Yes it may be more expensive but I've tried that particular combo and found it very effective. But if you want another wulfen pack then sacrifices must be taken.

 

And yes I know that there is certain protection from the character keyword, however, there are ways of getting around this little fence with the right unit.

[aluriel00]

@Nharvey89 - I have always favored units over characters but it's not like a rule or anything. Arjac gives an extra attack to all Wolf Guard in 6" as well as rerolls to wound and I figured that would balance out 1s & 2s. I am always hesitant to build my lists around just one thing and I already have a lot of points sunk into CC with the bikes/wulfen. I will look into him, however.

 

@Orkill - Are you adding Logan for the morale immunity or simply because he's cool? Do you have him on his sled? I am seriously considering converting a land speeder for his sled and making him a Sammael type character. 

 

@Karhedronuk - Really? That was pretty much the whole draw of the Stormwolf. I think I'm going to go LR or extra wulfen now.

 

@Brotherblur - I know there are ways to target Bjorn despite his being a character. I really want to take him and becoming less enamored of the Stormwolf as I read other player's posts.

[Kasper_Hawser]

@ aluriel00 - I didn't say replace Bjorn with Long Fangs. I'm just worried he will slow down your army which is mainly 12 inches movement + advancing, his movement is 8 inches + Advancing. He can still run along closely, but you have to be very careful to not only screen him from anti-tank fire, but also keep within 6" of his aura if you need to maximise shooting.

 

I'm suggesting you allocated one or two units as back field distractiom or suicide units, to divert firepower from your frontline. This can either be the Jump Pack Wolf Guard deepstriking, or one of the Wolfguard advancing up to 20". This will buy time for your central Bjorn force to catch up and maintain the aura formation.

[Karhedron]

@Karhedronuk - Really? That was pretty much the whole draw of the Stormwolf. I think I'm going to go LR or extra wulfen now.

One thing to remember is that flyers can now be assaulted in close combat by other units with the "Fly" keyword such as you JP Wolf Guard. I know you have equipped them for shooting but if you give one unit some punchy CC weapons, you can actually smash those pesky fliers right out of the air. "Hard to hit" only protects against shooting and is no defence against a Wolf Guard with jump pack smashing into the cockpit with a Thunderhammer.

[hammer grimblood]

 

@Karhedronuk - Really? That was pretty much the whole draw of the Stormwolf. I think I'm going to go LR or extra wulfen now.

One thing to remember is that flyers can now be assaulted in close combat by other units with the "Fly" keyword such as you JP Wolf Guard. I know you have equipped them for shooting but if you give one unit some punchy CC weapons, you can actually smash those pesky fliers right out of the air. "Hard to hit" only protects against shooting and is no defence against a Wolf Guard with jump pack smashing into the cockpit with a Thunderhammer.

This seems too good. A 5 man pack of Wolf Guard with jump packs and thunderhammers seem an amazing force to knock flyers out of the air.

[ORKILL]

@Aluriel00 I'm taking him for morale boost and the re-roll to hits making the bikers better.

[NightHowler]

One advantage that the Stormwolves have over Landraiders of all types is their increased mobility. They may not survive your opponent's shooting, but they are guaranteed to deliver their cargo deep into enemy territory. The Landraiders only move 10" per turn, so they may be more durable, but they are also a lot slower. This will be important in any mission that plays the long table, as anyone playing a gunline list that sees you brought Landraiders will likely deploy against the very back table edge. Just something to remember.

[Nharvey89]

Made my decision today and bought a stormwolf. I think really there isn't much in it and if you flipped a coin it would come up storm wolf as often as raider. What it came down to is the storm wolf is uniquely ours. I probably will never know if I made the right choice but I do know I will have a lot of fun learning the correct ways to use it.

[Gherrick]

I own 2 LRs and a stormwolf currently, but I often find myself never using the LRs, and proxying the stormwolf as a gunship. It really just depends on what kind of army list you are building. Since 8e, I prefer a jump pack army for better mobility, vs a heavier hitting but slower unit that really needs a transport to have similar mobility.

[aluriel00]

Thank you all for your comments!

 

I thought i was  down to either a crusader or stormwolf but gotten so many good ideas from all of you that I'm now thinking outside of that box. I still like that list, but have come up with some other cool ones as well.

 

@Karhedronuk - The hammer jump packs is simply too cool not to take. I could downgrade Logan, and maybe even Arjac to generic heroes and add thunder hammers in one or both jump pack units. All of my thunder hammers are modeled with scythes and would make a really cool unit of flying melee angels. Awesome idea!

 

Wolf Guard Battle Leader on Bike - CS + TH

Wolf Lord on Bike - CS + TH

2 Units of 10 Blood Claws w/WG Pack Leader w/frost sword in Rhinos w/SBs

2 Units of 5 Wolf Guard Bikes w/frost swords

2 Units of 5 Wolf Guard w/jump packs - 5 SB, 4 TH, 1 PS

1 Unit of plain Grey Hunters in Razorback with TLAC

1 Unit of Wulfen - 2 TH, 2 GFA

 

All Wolf Guard units have 2 storm shields in them with other models having chainswords.

 

I really like that list. I especially like that I already have all of the models and don't have to buy a new crusader or stormwolf. 8)

 

edited to add list.

Edited July 10, 2017 by aluriel00