Blood Angels access to Space Marine units

[LutherMax]

Thanks to the Keyword system, we now have easy access to all those units we used to grumble about only being able to use in an allied detachment (with the HQ/Troop tax).

 

They can't be <CHAPTER> = Blood Angels but that isn't a problem except in certain specific situations.

 

So what are you guys most excited about painting red and using with your Blood Angels? Land Speeder Storms, Stormhawks, Storm Talons, Tartaros Termies..?!

[Charlo]

AT THE MOMENT.... None of them.

 

Why?

 

Because everything will change when the codex comes out!

 

I was lucky enough to be in the seminar at Warhammer Fest when they were talking about codexes and how they will work.

 

Basically, on a detachment per detachment basis if they are all one faction then you'll be able to use the faction specific strategems and what not (which will more than likely be very desirable).

 

So to bring those other units you'll need another detahcment, usually at least a HQ and another choice if you don't want to lose any command points - sure this could include more blood angels, but those ones would be unable to benefit from the BA strategems from the other detachment and all other kids of logistical nightmares when playing games...

 

I was also told in the QnA that we will get access to Cataphractii & Tartaros, so this must be coming in our codex anyway :)

[Warsmith Uveron]

Flyers... Storm Talons

 

Becuse as long as I take 3 of them I can run them as a flyer wing. Which can support the rest of my army. 

[Karhedron]

Also Storm Talons. This is mainly fluffy as it seems absurd that the most aerially orientated Chapter can get the standard gunship.

[Aothaine]

Centurions. They look amazing. I want them. I want lots of them.

[Arkhanist]

So what are you guys most excited about painting red and using with your Blood Angels? Land Speeder Storms, Stormhawks, Storm Talons, Tartaros Termies..?!

 

Bear in mind they will be another chapter. So you will have to - at the very least - give them a different chapter symbol and skip blood angel sculpting. It should be easily clear to your opponent which units have which faction, both WYSIWIG for tornaments etc and also just being a fair sportsman.

 

I'll stick to forgeworld stuff now it's clear than we can take that; that should survive the codex transition and largely fills in any gaps from missing codex units, such as with the xiphon.

Edited July 6, 2017 by Arkhanist

[Hillslam]

I've had it with this exclusion bs. 8th was a godsend in the keyword design. If WG rolls that back with codexs I can guarantee I'm going to ignore it. I've already bought stormtalon / stormhawk because rule of cool, and I've painted them Blood Angel. Will be doing same with landspeeder storms and thunderfire guns because they look awesome.

 

If that means I miss out on playing some types of opponents I am not in any way crying about that.

[Spagunk]

I've already painted up a unit that I didn't have access to because I just love the model:

The one time I'm ahead of the trend.

[LutherMax]

 

So what are you guys most excited about painting red and using with your Blood Angels? Land Speeder Storms, Stormhawks, Storm Talons, Tartaros Termies..?!

 

Bear in mind they will be another chapter. So you will have to - at the very least - give them a different chapter symbol and skip blood angel sculpting. It should be easily clear to your opponent which units have which faction, both WYSIWIG for tornaments etc and also just being a fair sportsman.

 

I'll stick to forgeworld stuff now it's clear than we can take that; that should survive the codex transition and largely fills in any gaps from missing codex units, such as with the xiphon.

 

 

I don't play tournaments (except the casual ones I organise with friends), so not sure what kinds of rules they would impose but outside of that I see absolutely no reason whatsoever to not paint those units as Blood Angels – they're my models, bought and paid for, it'a absolutely up to me how I paint them!

 

I would of course explain to my opponent any units that don't have the Blood Angels keyword and therefore can't benefit from whatever aura buffs.

[Arkhanist]

I've had it with this exclusion bs. 8th was a godsend in the keyword design. If WG rolls that back with codexs I can guarantee I'm going to ignore it. I've already bought stormtalon / stormhawk because rule of cool, and I've painted them Blood Angel. Will be doing same with landspeeder storms and thunderfire guns because they look awesome.

 

If that means I miss out on playing some types of opponents I am not in any way crying about that.

 

What you do with friends to change the rules to suit yourselves is of course up to you. If I'm playing you in a pickup game or tournament, and you cheerfully tell me you think you can just ignore any rules you just don't like?

 

Yeah, I'd not be crying about skipping that game either.

[Blindhamster]

there is nothing in the rules forcing a paint job. So long as the player clearly identifies which things are keyword <Blood Angels> and which things are keyword <Red Space Marines> there is no rules breaking of any kind.

[Arkhanist]

I was specifically referring to him stating that'd he ignore changes to keyword rules he doesn't like. But alright.

Note, this all mostly doesn't apply to close friends you play all the time, as, as I've already said, that's different.

 

There's no rule specifying that you can't have an entire army of just bolter marines either counting as something else - 'this squad over here has a plasmagun and a missile launcher, this squad over here has a a grav gun and a lascannon, this identical squad is actually deathwatch. That guy with the upturned helmet has a frag cannon, and this rhino with two stormbolters is actually a sicaran'.

 

It's about respecting your opponent's time and memory. You're forcing them to memorize which identically painted units have different sets of rules applying to them. Right now that includes who can go in which transports, which psychic powers affect who, and which auras affect what. With the codexes coming, that's going to expand substantially.

 

Now your opponent not only has to remember his own stuff, he has to try and remember which very similar models fall under which ruleset for the whole game. You'll likely remember, because they're your models and you know exactly what had what keyword, but hey, even you might forget. He may well be used to playing codex marines where those units CAN get buffed for example, or he may not know marines that well at all, and mistake this flyer with a BA paintjob with that other flyer with a BA paintjob and think this one gets hit rerolls instead of that one - or he's expecting that psyker to cast BA powers because he's painted like a fricking BA model, but it's actually 'red marine' standard powers with a totally different effect.

 

Be fair to the guy on the other side of the table who may well have never played your army before, and may never again. He doesn't know your units on sight. A quick 'oh, this one is actually different to the others even though it looks the same' at the start isn't enough. If you really really must paint it BA colours with BA symbols - even though BA CANNOT take that unit and you're a fluff murderer* - then make it clear some other way - a very different type of base, a clearly coloured different pennant, even a fricking big counter, something!

 

Be a good sportsman. Don't make your opponent waste his time struggling to tell the two apart, that's all I'm saying. And yes, I do print out a copy of the datasheets for my army for my opponent, so he can see what each unit does easily.

 

* small joke

[Blindhamster]

there are other ways to clearly show that something uses different rules - bases etc for example, not to mention that usually itd be for units not typically available to Blood Angels core.

Honestly Id say its unsporting to say someone cannot paint and build their models as they desire.

[Xenith]

 

Be fair to the guy on the other side of the table who may well have never played your army before, and may never again. He doesn't know your units on sight

 

And likewise, if they are playing unfamiliar Xenos, I shall tell them to stop, and use Blood Angels, which I understand. Warp Spiders do what?

 

Seriously, in a friendly environment, 99% of the time people won't intentionally be cheating. Your opponent will be asking questions. You will be using the correct rules for the correct units. It's part of the social contract.

 

In an unfriendly environment, your opponent should know that BA cannot take centurians, or whatever. 

[Aothaine]

Man I am too friendly. I go out of my way to help my opponent. I even point out weak points in my positioning lol... goodness.. and I was thinking about going on tournament road trips. :(

[Helias_Tancred]

Also Storm Talons. This is mainly fluffy as it seems absurd that the most aerially orientated Chapter can get the standard gunship.

 

in the Dante novel and the Mephiston novel it describes Blood Angel Storm Talons being used

 

So yes, you are not the only one who thinks that

Edited July 7, 2017 by Helias Tancred

[Brother_Angelus]

Assault and Devastator Centurions for me.

 

Particularly keen on drill, flamer & hurricane bolter assault guys accompanied by Captain "Kedro Pantor" in a storm raven.

[Arkangilos]

Yeah, paint job shouldn't even matter considering those units, no matter how they are painted, can't use BA rules, even if you paint them as BA. If you have to color coat units differently because you can't tell that the shape doesn't allow those rules the problem is you, not them.

[Hillslam]

 

What you do with friends to change the rules to suit yourselves is of course up to you. If I'm playing you in a pickup game or tournament, and you cheerfully tell me you think you can just ignore any rules you just don't like?

 

Yeah, I'd not be crying about skipping that game either.

.

.

.

I was specifically referring to him stating that'd he ignore changes to keyword rules he doesn't like.

 

Yeah, I didn't say that. But since you chose to put words in my mouth to imply I would cheat I guess I feel the need to respond.

 

I would never cheat nor selectively ignore rules. What I *would* ignore, is shelling out my hard earned cash for a new codex book. Strategems don't mean nearly as much to me as collector and painter as they may to a min/maxing tourney wonk.  I'll keep using the Imperium 1 index that I got on preorder and the faq adjustments. Strategems aren't worth that trade because I play narrative over competitive any day. And I'll paint my models and minis any way I please.

 

For visual reference I keep any of my generic units clearly distinguishable on table with a different base color. Such as my Blood Angels regalia Stormhawk 

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/B0381cLcekfG6FdqyABoEFwCB4Nxt1lQuM4QAj3p84lxho7SuhDS_cFpUNyVaFEfhUrNzjaF8H9nhHwZSlOBqep8OoptDRRbJFhmP5zTAPwL6tulkj2xvRJ4SRFrJrq8GpBJVojB-prepKiHUpb3j-bryGAS1baRnxtqGbA-HMwjNc8cwHbTkUJ29_fKZ2kaChHD16JvBdDooFRL3C7rkPN59dhtXLPKAbdU9LyEbgp5900V2uVt-qDzxMHmnungySDoL6I5nSrxFAXKT7S1IzRDriqVG4mCnvUDJWGPXsm0XzjHkJHSjjHX83r6H-sJGLsc7Rv0SRMnUfIuuTFLk6FGmtrt5dhrv3SyUSLHFLoFnnxXTg-9XiQD_ux1sYDCWyP_6LcAJ5v-_ycNxiFCMVlZHlMMXw6_2kL1eys5ljA4RPqNSBfXQaCWDqwZZLPFRVHCEZucpqnCikZ2svpfJhgYzhbcjPkHf_7tGn011kVSNFAFf-qkHHnrAv_SmenAaOgclMMHQbLLCax-EyouEqFs1zNsHKeR0psV91e92GftTn8n7bC8ogmqt4uDfnfwdFpfeEpMaYbWkVDOva3JNnGWGEsbSFrKzkYjSKADTk3wGA-g0ykl8lKEhg=w1379-h950-no

It and others stay on a white base while my "true" BA units are on black base. Everything is magnetized for wysiwyg. Not once has there been an issue with a game partner in these parts. My opponents and I always have a good time, but I'm lucky enough to live in an area with many like minded collectors.

Edited July 7, 2017 by Hillslam

[Hillslam]

I've already painted up a unit that I didn't have access to because I just love the model:

The one time I'm ahead of the trend.

lol me too

[Karhedron]

I agree that players should be able to paint their models how they would like. However, just to make life easier for my opponent, my Storm Talons are painted black with red and white trim. My fluff justification is that at some point, their pilots succumbed to the Black Rage and their successors painted the craft black to honour their memories. Fluffy but also a helpful reminder.

[Charlo]

I agree that players should be able to paint their models how they would like. However, just to make life easier for my opponent, my Storm Talons are painted black with red and white trim. My fluff justification is that at some point, their pilots succumbed to the Black Rage and their successors painted the craft black to honour their memories. Fluffy but also a helpful reminder.

 

Yeah now this i'm super on board with.

 

Otherwise it's ripe for both accidental and unintentional cheating!

[Xenith]

My Centurions and Storm Hawks will have chapter keyword BLURRED ANGLES, I think.

[Jolemai]

Excited isn't the word but the only thing for me is the Imperial Space Marine (which we get anyway*) and the Terminus Ultra which I've had the parts for since it first appeared for Apocalypse back in the day (and yes, we could use it).

 

* Something in the upcoming Codex FAQs by Warhammer Community tells me it won't be in our book but we'll need Imp1 to still use it

[Charlo]

PEW PEW PEW PEW PEW PEW PEW PEW!