CSM can't have Bolters and Chainswords?

[Confused Word Bearer]

I'm looking at the index and I just noticed that Chaos Space Marines can't take Bolters and Chainswords together like they could in 7th. Is this intended?

[MoK]

Yeah bit sucky that.

[Commissar K.]

Yes, new edition, new rules.

--

Once upon a time Obliterators had Power Fists and had a 0-1 restriction.

[Beachymike123]

Hopefully this will be changed in the new codex. If not, some of my models will just have to admire their chainswords during a battle as opposed to using them

[Commissar K.]

Honestly I dont think it will change. Stuff like that happens. Death Guard bikers also dissapeared. It could well be that future Raptors cant have the World Eater Keyword while they now can.

[the jeske]

Hopefully this will be changed in the new codex. If not, some of my models will just have to admire their chainswords during a battle as opposed to using them

For it to change you would require new csm models with bolter and chainsword option. The chance may be a little slim for this to happen.

[MoK]

 

 

Hopefully this will be changed in the new codex. If not, some of my models will just have to admire their chainswords during a battle as opposed to using them

For it to change you would require new csm models with bolter and chainsword option. The chance may be a little slim for this to happen.

 

I was under the impression the CSM box came with Chainswords?

[Confused Word Bearer]

 

 

Hopefully this will be changed in the new codex. If not, some of my models will just have to admire their chainswords during a battle as opposed to using them

For it to change you would require new csm models with bolter and chainsword option. The chance may be a little slim for this to happen.

I was under the impression the CSM box came with Chainswords?

They do, and there's even a Daily Duncan video where he paints up a CSM with a bolter and chainsword in Word Bearer red. Also I found out that Space Wolves kept the ability to keep Bolters and Chainswords, so now I'm further confused as to why CSM can't?

[Khornestar]

Isn't it that they can't have bolters, pistols, and chainswords at the same time?

[MoK]

Isn't it that they can't have bolters, pistols, and chainswords at the same time?

 

Why not? Chosen do don't they?

[Confused Word Bearer]

Nope, they can have either bolters and pistols, or pistols and chainswords, but not bolters and chainswords, and not all three, whereas Space Wolf Grey Hunters can. The wording for CSM is to replace their bolters with chainswords, where Grey Hunters can take chainswords.

 

Isn't it that they can't have bolters, pistols, and chainswords at the same time?

Why not? Chosen do don't they?

Chosen can't either, oddly enough.

[Iron Father Ferrum]

In direct contravention of the Chosen models form Dark Vengeance, I might add.  Silly GW.

[Xenith]

Comparing what space wolves get to what everyone else gets is a road that ends in madness and disappointment. 

[Canadian_F_H]

Well that is just wrong.

 

I hope they correct that. Especially since that's exactly what you can do with the existing box.

[Sception]

Bolters, bolt pistols, and chain swords are all zero point wargear.  /if/ you could take all three, then the correct equipment would /always/ be to take all three.

 

If you could take any two of the three, then the correct equipment choice by a comfortable margin would be bolter / chain sword, as the bolter is always better than a pistol when shooting while not engaged, and if you are engaged the chain sword gets you more extra attacks than the pistol.  The bolter / bolt pistol equipment set in particular would be strictly obsoleted.

 

Bolter / bolt pistol vs. chain sword / bolt pistol is arguably a meaningful choice, plus it has some legacy precedent (those were the options before the 4th ed book), so I'm not surprised to see the default gear set restricted back to that.  Obviously I'd prefer otherwise, for chosen, unit champions, and HQs in particular, but I can understand how things ended up as they are.

 

Don't ask me to explain how space wolves ended up with the superior equipment set, though.  As Xenith said, comparing chaos marines to space wolves has only ever resulted in disappointment and despair.

[Gordon Shumway]

In direct contravention of the Chosen models form Dark Vengeance, I might add.  Silly GW.

Don't the chosen from DV have their own bespoken rules?

[Azekai]

I want to know how Chaos, an army bristling with chainswords, doesn't get them as an option at all. Seems like a crazy oversight as well as a nerf. I really hope this gets rectified.

[Sception]

Half the DV chosen are still legal.  Two are identical Bolter/Bolt Pistol grunts with no chain sword or other special melee weapon (they have shethed regular swords, but 'generic close combat weapon' is no longer a wargear item with special rules), while another has a pair of lightning claws and nothing else.

 

Three are illegal under the new chosen rules, the champion; armed with a bolt pistol, bolter, and power mace; one chosen armed with a bolter, bolt pistol, and power fist; and one chosen armed with a bolter, bolt pistol, and power axe.

 

The Draznicht Ravager squad from the DV supplement book does have bespoke rules for a unit of exactly six chosen with specific gear, and it does allow the Bolter, Bolt Pistol, Power Fist guy, even though that's not a legal equipment set in the normal chosen unit entry.  However, whoever wrote the rules for the unit apparently only looked at the front of the models, and didn't see the bolter strapped to the backpack of the champion and the power axe guy, because they don't have their bolters in those rules, either.

 

There is a DV unit entry for vrosh tattersoul, the "aspiring champion" model that still comes in the cultist box, with his combi-melta, power axe, bolt pistol equipment set, which is also otherwise illegal under the new rules.

I want to know how Chaos, an army bristling with chainswords, doesn't get them as an option at all. Seems like a crazy oversight as well as a nerf. I really hope this gets rectified.

 

Nearly every CSM power armored unit can take chainswords, what are you talking about?

[Xenith]

Where kit are people using that are saying you can arm your chaos marines with bolter and chainsword?

 

Looking at my CSM sprues, the bolter is in two hands, the chainsword in one hand.

 

The only option* is to have the right arm with bolter holding it across the chest, then have a couple of chainswords in left hands

 

*without converting.

[Azekai]

 

I want to know how Chaos, an army bristling with chainswords, doesn't get them as an option at all. Seems like a crazy oversight as well as a nerf. I really hope this gets rectified.

 

Nearly every CSM power armored unit can take chainswords, what are you talking about?

You don't get them as an option if you want to actually shoot. I mean, it sounds like they are going into WYSIWYG overdrive. If you don't literally have a bolter and a chainsword in the model's hands you have to chose between them? Why even put limits on that? Is it for clarity's sake or just to make the the faction weaker?

 

Maybe I am just used to having my cake and eating it too.

 

In the older editions it never seemed too confusing that CSM got a cc weapon, a pistol and bolter... and I doubt the Grey Hunters all have those options modeled either. If a CSM squad has a mix of bolters and chainswords and pistols and was easily understood they were all armed with that combination, why is that so difficult to grasp now?

[MoK]

I didn't mind having to pay a few extra points for a chsinsword, but to not have the option at all sucks.

[Sception]

 

 

I want to know how Chaos, an army bristling with chainswords, doesn't get them as an option at all. Seems like a crazy oversight as well as a nerf. I really hope this gets rectified.

 

Nearly every CSM power armored unit can take chainswords, what are you talking about?

You don't get them as an option if you want to actually shoot.

 

 

That is not the same as not having the option.

 

I didn't mind having to pay a few extra points for a chsinsword, but to not have the option at all sucks.

 

Unfortunately, the current paradigm doesn't really allow for weapons to cost zero points on some models and non-zero points on others.  Of course, this gear didn't have to cost zero points.  Chaos Marine units could have been one point cheaper accross the board, with bolters and chain swords both costing a point each, and allowing any combination probably would have been fine.  But whatever.

 

Again, though, you have the option to take chain swords.  The option is right there.  It costs your bolters, but there are usually trade offs with options.

[MoK]

Not gonna give up my bolter for a bolt pistol. Oh well, every single one of my Chaos Marines has bolters and chainswords

[Azekai]

 

You don't get them as an option if you want to actually shoot.

 

 

That is not the same as not having the option.

 

Speaking pragmatically, it is the same. It is a non-choice.

 

I don't want to have to choose between vomit and a turd. I WANT BOTH!

Edited July 7, 2017 by Azekai

[the jeske]

 

 

I was under the impression the CSM box came with Chainswords?

 

yes the old box. you will not get an upgraded rule set for csm, until you get a new csm box. If GW didn't give us ultra grit now, the chances it will give us in the "legion" book is rather slim.

 

 

Again, though, you have the option to take chain swords.  The option is right there.  It costs your bolters, but there are usually trade offs with options.

 

The trouble with trade off is that to be good they have to give something realy powerful or have an inherit synergy. This is a choice between making the same type of units less flexible. Less flexible units generally do not win games. You want the most powerful stuff as cheap as possible with as many good synergies as possible.