=][= Unit(s) of the week: Infantry Squads =][=

[duz_]

It has come to the Commissariat's attention that some of you have not being keeping up with your regular training requirements. As such we intend to rectify this immediately by commencing an intensive re-education of the command corps. Failure will not be tolerated!

 

This will be a weekly series of threads aimed at discussing the units available to the Astra Miliatrum in 8th edition. This can become a resource for those finding their feet in 8th and our brothers in arms who have joined the fight in the glorious Imperial Guard.

 

The next series will cover our main battle line units, Troops!

This particular thread will be dedicated to the bread and butter of the Astra Militarum, the Infantry Squad.

 

I see some of you have already done your pre-reading in this thread which is great to see.

 

Since getting back into the game in early 7th I always wanted to use an infantry heavy army. However I quickly learnt that this was not particularly viable in an edition that required high mobility and fixed wound allocation. After several games where my infantry squads would lose any ground they had gained by being shot back and just too slow to get to objectives I retired them for Mechanised Veterans.

This new edition however they are one of our most versatile options, IMHO.

With their lower point cost you can field a large number of them on the board, they can provide bubble wrap duties, fire support and even objective grabbing with the "move move move" order. 

For my next game I hope to include 4-6 squads of these units, supported by Commissars and Commanders to maximise their combat effectiveness. 

 

What have your experiences been thus far?

Edited July 9, 2017 by duz_

[WarriorFish]

I've almost always taken a fair few squads in to a game, now they're even cheaper it's hard to say no. They perform vital escort and interception duties effectively providing a moving wall that fights back. With 8th letting you fall back from combat they're better still, as I can easily lose a squad's shooting (or more likely: less than a squad) in exchange for letting the accompanying units shoot the formerly charging unit into oblivion. Add in some Commissar support and the wall can't be shot off the board either

 

They still perform well escorting tanks of course, but with the change in points this means it's even easier to get lots of troops round your precious armour. They're more expensive and therefore more valuable, but troops are cheaper - that's win/win right? Add in Orders which are not only improved but also automatic and your standard Guardsman starts looking indispensable.

 

Never before has "more models than you can kill" been so viable. With no blast templates to potentially harm numbers there's a great time to go infantry heavy

[Gloomfoe]

My first two games of 8th I brought a brigade with 6 infantry squads. For 240 points you can fill the min requirement for troops in a brigade, which for most armies is gonna be the main cost of a brigade, so thats a huge advantage and one that I see no reason not to take advantage of every single game.

 

 

Buffs to infantry squads: 10pts cheaper, extra shot with orders, orders are automatic, str 3 lasguns now wound T5 on 5+ and EVERYTHING on a 6+, we actually get to make armor saves now(in cover with psychic shield up they will have a 3+!!!), also you can kit out a sgt. with a plasma pistol/power sword for only 8pts as opposed to 30.

 

So yeah, get those boots on the ground!!

Edited July 9, 2017 by Gloomfoe

[Withershadow]

Guard have a real easy time filling the brigade requirement. Every section is filled with good inexpensive stuff. For troops, either Infantry Squads (particularly of Krieg variety) or Scions are great choices.

[DarthWaffle]

I know this has been discussed before, but Heavy Weapons or no?

 

I think its situational, if they're escorting tanks, no? If they're acting as a gun line, yes?

 

I'm leaning on the fence right now about how to equip my lads :S

[Altasmurf]

I used heavy weapons the first few games but found I was often moving and using frsr. The past few games, even using power level instead of points, I haven't been taking them and I don't miss them. That being said I did get a bit of utility out of a Las plas squad I used last game. So for advancing wave I don't use them. But a station bubble wrap can make use of them.

[duz_]

Either / or, depends on what you want them for.

 

If theyre bubble wrap and fire support I'd say yes. If they're cheap objective grabbers and forward units then no. 

[Sawtooth]

Do you like Chimeras with any normal infantry squads, or do you save the points for units with more firepower?

[Truesight]

Mech up the veterans so they can really slam something when they unload, normal squadies can walk :D

[dakkamasta]

I know i wrote this in another thread, but my new favourite way to run them is mechanised. In 7th a normal infantry squad wasn't worth a chimera. They were better holding the line with a heavy weapon.

 

Now I run each squad in a twin heavy flamer chimera and a flamer in each squad. Run in multples of 2 with a company commander and commissar for every pair of chimeras.

 

Between the 2 units and their transports they can put out (with FRFSRF):

 

4d6 heavy flamer hits

2d6 flamer hits

64 lasgun shots plus 2 pistols

 

That's one turn of fire on a mobile, durable platform. This is fantastic for the points. Also since it's multiple units, if something gets charged you can just fall back and have everything else around it unload.

[NatBrannigan]

Infantry squads are great now. Real winners in 8th edition. Get you characters in the right place and they can lay on the hurt. I've split off my Heavy weapons into squads to fill the back field (They're great at stopping deep striking units get in behind you as the front ranks advance) and that's how they're staying for now.

 

If your tanks are charged it's a bit of a nightmare, so they need Infantry support even more than they used to now.

 

I suspect Mech infantry might be doable. For most units having a tank in close combat is hard to kill meaning they either chip away at it or fall back, so no shooting. Guard Transports are quite shooty themselves so might prefer being out of combat though. My opponent in my last game used Rhinos to tie up Infantry squads heading to objectives to great effect. Fortunately for me Guard are always prepared and falling back is not a big deal. Against other armies though...

 

Anyway, Infantry squads are great.

[duz_]

I haven't really used any Chimera this edition yet. I tried a couple of Taroux Primes. They do well I like the changes to their mini battle cannon.

 

I think Chimeras are better off for more elite units like Vets or Ogryns. I suspect you'd be better off with more infantry squads than mechanizing them. Unless you want to go for that theme.

Remember we dont have to worry about AP5 any more and infantry can move through terrain / ruins without penalty any more. So although a chimera might move quicker it will always have to go around ruins while infantry can go through and they get a 4+ to boot!

[Sawtooth]

Good advice. How do you feel about equipping sergeants? I had thought to give them bolters, but Las rifles seem like a good deal since they benefit from the ranked fire order. I don't like any kind of close combat setup on them, that's not what they're there for as far as I'm concerned.

[Altasmurf]

Sgt. Can't have lasguns. The boltgun option is an excellent choice provide a bit of range punch cheap.

[duz_]

Yes annoyingly Lasguns are still not an option for Sgts... maybe with the codex dropping? 
I don't understand the reason why you can equip them with a Bolter (which we don't have a guard version of), but not a Lasgun.

 

I had been thinking I would kit mine out with power fists, but also oddly enough they're only an option for Veteran Sgts... Mauls seem like a good alternative to PF though

[DarthWaffle]

Yes annoyingly Lasguns are still not an option for Sgts... maybe with the codex dropping? 

I don't understand the reason why you can equip them with a Bolter (which we don't have a guard version of), but not a Lasgun.

 

I had been thinking I would kit mine out with power fists, but also oddly enough they're only an option for Veteran Sgts... Mauls seem like a good alternative to PF though

 

Is S6 worth it though? To me I would just stick with a chainsword or the like and give Sgts/Vet Sgts Plasma Pistols. For 5 points you output wayyyy more damage, even if its just for one more turn before you get charged by 50 Berserkers.

[Altasmurf]

I don't feel fists on sgts. Are worth it. You hit only on a 5+. Plasma pistol are cheap for a solid 50/50 hit. For me its eith bolter for the cheap range add, and/or a power weapon. Any would work really but lean towards axe or sword.

[micahwc]

For the cost I think a plasma pistol is better than a power fist. You can still use it in close combat, it costs less points, it has higher strength even without supercharging it. You also get a short ranged attack out of it and a chance to overwatch when you are charged. I think it's just a better deal all around.

 

This is of course for an Infantry sergeant. For something like a Lord Commisar who would hit on 3+ with the power fist, I would probably bring one of each.

Edited July 12, 2017 by micahwc

[duz_]

The power fist has nothing to do with points efficiency. It has more to with the fact its not really been a viable option for guard ever and now there is a chance for my Sgt to smack someone right in the nose with it, D:D3 is nice though and rule of kewl B)

[Withershadow]

Best place for a power fist is a Lord Commissar who still hits on a 3+.

 

Commanders, Commissars, and DKoK can make it work with a 4+ accuracy.

 

Giving it to regular Sgts who hit on 5+ with 2 swings seems like a big waste of points as it increases the cost of the squad by 25% for no real gain. Rule of cool does not apply because Guard powerfists look silly. :P

[Galron]

Except on Elysian commanders. Powerfists look boss there. That said he is the only guy in my army that carries one and even then only because it looks cool. I am still torn on my loadouts for my infantry squads. I have one with a flamer just help clear objectives. My other two squads I am leaning towards grenade launchers for the cost and extra d6 shots at better range. I have to say though, so far in my games, lasguns are really doing well, especially against things they shouldn't. I have inflicted more wounds on big guys and things I shouldn't be able to wound than I have on stuff that should be comparatively easy.

 

Loadouts for sgts annoy me since the elysian troops set doesn't even come with a laspistol or chainblade option. In fact the only two sets  in the line that is an option for are the two command squads with one arm in each. Yeah I have converted some, but then you run into the fun problem that all the arms are fit for a matching arm. Even worse, normal guard chainswords are frikkin massive compared to Elysian models. Does DKK have the same problem in its line?

[Withershadow]

They have a command set that comes with 2 laspistol arms, a chainsword arm, a power sword arm, one of each sword without a hand, and then a bunch of pistol hands.

[zero88]

Bolter/Chainsword, Heavy Bolter, and Grenade Launcher. Only 54 points for decent move and fire dakka or emplacing and acting as a firebase. Plasma is dirt cheap now but idk if I can get over the fact that it's supposed to be a rare firearm and probably wouldn't be issued to every line unit and sergeant

[Thoridon]

I've skipped the Heaviea so far, my infantry move a lot so hitting on 5+ is too unreliable for me. I also use FRF order a lot so masses of lasguns are nice sounding tough targets on a 6.

 

I did actually find a meltagun to be very effective last game. It only shot once but hit and dealt 5 wounds to kill a tough monster after a tank brought it low. Of corse, if the melta had missed I'd be saying the opposite...

 

I still think (as with my pre-release thread) that mostly lasguns with a lone special keeps them cost efficient while mobile, plus some sensible sergeant upgrades without going over the top. Keep an officer close for FRF and spam those dozens of dice.

[Withershadow]

Note that heavy weapon teams retain one lasgun and models can fire all of their weapons, so you only lose 1 lasgun for the heavy weapon.  I still haven't been taking heavy weapons in squads, but it's something to consider.