=][= Unit(s) of the week: Infantry Squads =][=

[Altasmurf]

Priest are amazing with catachans, the shock my opponent had when a priest, straken and 10 guardsmen had when i charged his fill squad of marines and librarian was priceless as I put the hurt on the squad and killed the libby.

[Tirak]

S6 AP-1 Powermauls. Catachans are the reason GW pulled the plug on useful power weapons on normal infantry squads.

[CoffeeGrunt]

Were Power Mauls and Axes ever modelled on Guard, though? I've never seen them without conversion.

[Tirak]

Not so far as I know, though I may be wrong about the Mauls since I know some folks use them on Steel Legion.

[Altasmurf]

Some old 2nd/3rd edition commissars had a power axe. I don't believe any single power maul guard model has ever been made. Someone may be able to show some rogue trader model and prove me wrong.

[Guardsman Bob]

S6 AP-1 Powermauls. Catachans are the reason GW pulled the plug on useful power weapons on normal infantry squads.

I would like to give GW Devs credit for thinking that deep but I can’t. Watering down Guard options has been a historic norm. I’m still bummed out about not having storm bolters and those were only around for like one Codex in 3rd edition.

[Malakithe]

My Catachan list has infantry with plasma gun/plasma pistol. But the CCs rock power fists so thats okay

[OnboardG1]

My Catachan list has infantry with plasma gun/plasma pistol. But the CCs rock power fists so thats okay

 

Of course, cheap S8 on a reasonably competent platform is great.

 

I'm definitely going to get some priests for the army to go with straken. The WFB priests are great models so I'll probably use those.

[TheShredder]

 

My Catachan list has infantry with plasma gun/plasma pistol. But the CCs rock power fists so thats okay

 

Of course, cheap S8 on a reasonably competent platform is great.

 

S7. You multiply before adding modifiers. 

[OnboardG1]

 

 

My Catachan list has infantry with plasma gun/plasma pistol. But the CCs rock power fists so thats okay

 

Of course, cheap S8 on a reasonably competent platform is great.

 

S7. You multiply before adding modifiers. 

 

 

Bah, forgot about that. S7 is still pretty solid for clonking monsters and vehicles.

[CoffeeGrunt]

Is there still the rule about multiplying before adding? I understood it as adding to the base Strength stat, thus the Power Fist would give S8.

[TheShredder]

Is there still the rule about multiplying before adding? I understood it as adding to the base Strength stat, thus the Power Fist would give S8.

 

Hmm, I thought it had been faqd to that, but now I can't find it again. 

 

In that case I've got no clue.

[Zectz]

Page 175 rulebook on the right. It's pretty clear and been the same since day 1. "All modifiers are cumulative, though you should apply any multiplication or division to the characteristic (rounding fractions up) before applying any addition or subtraction.

[Brother Talarian]

To me that's illogical. They get +1 to their Str stat prior to any combat. So they're effectively str 4 before the game even starts. Once they hit combat they x2 their str, so str 8. It's not like you're doing an equation before tou fight, you just double the str, which is 4.

[OnboardG1]

To me that's illogical. They get +1 to their Str stat prior to any combat. So they're effectively str 4 before the game even starts. Once they hit combat they x2 their str, so str 8. It's not like you're doing an equation before tou fight, you just double the str, which is 4.

 

This is actually... kind of a good point. The rule says "Add one to strength". Does that mean base characteristic (in which case the model is Strength 4 and doubles to 8) or is it considered a modifier? I'm leaning towards the latter for rules consistency, but it's Gdub so yea...

[CoffeeGrunt]

One for an FAQ. Just like last edition with Wolf Lords with Thunder Hammers.

[HenricusTyranicus]

Quote from the designer's commentary:

Q: If a rule modifies a model’s Strength characteristic, and that model is equipped with a melee weapon that also has a modifier (e.g. ‘x2’), could you explain the order in which the modifiers are applied to the characteristics and the weapon’s Strength?

A: First you must determine the model’s current Strength characteristic. To do so apply all modifiers to it that multiply or divide the value, then apply any that add or subtract to it. Having done this, you then modify this value as described by the weapon’s Strength characteristic. For example, let’s imagine a model with a basic Strength characteristic of 3 is under the effects of two psychic powers: a friendly one that doubles their Strength characteristic, and an enemy one that subtracts 1 from their Strength characteristic. That model’s current Strength is therefore 5. If this model then fights with a weapon like a power fist, which has a Strength characteristic of ‘x2’, that attack will therefore be resolved at Strength 10.

 

So it goes multiply, then add, THEN you repeat the steps with the weapon. So yeah, str 8 powerfists.

[OnboardG1]

Quote from the designer's commentary:

 

Q: If a rule modifies a model’s Strength characteristic, and that model is equipped with a melee weapon that also has a modifier (e.g. ‘x2’), could you explain the order in which the modifiers are applied to the characteristics and the weapon’s Strength?

A: First you must determine the model’s current Strength characteristic. To do so apply all modifiers to it that multiply or divide the value, then apply any that add or subtract to it. Having done this, you then modify this value as described by the weapon’s Strength characteristic. For example, let’s imagine a model with a basic Strength characteristic of 3 is under the effects of two psychic powers: a friendly one that doubles their Strength characteristic, and an enemy one that subtracts 1 from their Strength characteristic. That model’s current Strength is therefore 5. If this model then fights with a weapon like a power fist, which has a Strength characteristic of ‘x2’, that attack will therefore be resolved at Strength 10.

 

So it goes multiply, then add, THEN you repeat the steps with the weapon. So yeah, str 8 powerfists.

 

Ah okay, so the weapon is always the last thing to be applied then? Gotcha. 

[CoffeeGrunt]

Man, those Catachan are pretty scary then!

[OnboardG1]

Man, those Catachan are pretty scary then!

 

I'm glad I just built Colonel Smashface with a powerfist. He's going to be hanging out with his poker buddy straken and his local vicar for some pugilistic action.

[CoffeeGrunt]

Being able to punch tanks up will be pretty handy.

[TheShredder]

Nice.

 

Going back to the topic, I used to run a pretty standard group of Infantry Squads:
Infantry Squad w/ Plasmagun, Lascannon
Infantry Squad w/ Plasmagun, Lascannon/Missile Launcher (I initially used Missile Launchers but since tended more towards Lascannons)

Infantry Squad w/ Flamer

 

(I'd have 3 of these, plus Company Commanders and Commissars to support them).

 

The Lascannon squad would go at the back. The second Lascannon or Missile squad would go in the middle, and the Flamer squad would advance up to screen the others.

 

It worked okay but I didn't like being tied down by the Heavy Weapon Teams. My army already lacked mobility due to the lack of transports, and this made me less mobile still.

 

So, recently, I tried a game as Tallarn. This time I used:
Infantry Squad w/ Plasmagun, Bolter 
​Infantry Squad w/ Plasmagun, Bolter 
​Infantry Squad w/ Plasmagun, Bolter 
​Infantry Squad w/ Flamer, Bolter 

 

Again, I had 3 of these along with support stuff.

 

(I moved the Lascannons to my Heavy Weapon Squads, of which I had 6.) 

 

These were a lot better. It was much more fun to be able to move and even Advance freely with my infantry, rather than be stuck in place (or else shoot my expensive heavy Weapons at BS5+). What's more, with the Tallarn doctrine I was able to outflank 3 of the Infantry squads - thus improving my mobility even more.

 

The only things I didn't like were the bolters. They just felt like a lot of faffing around with separate dice for very little gain. In the future I think I'll try plasma pistols instead. Also, I'm not sure about the Flamers. I love the models but they really don't do much. Might see if Grenade Launchers are any better.

 

Regardless, this is how I plan to run my Infantry Squads from now on. 

[Guardsman Bob]

One of the most pleasant surprises the gameplay in 8th has been the feel of close combat. In so many editions it was a real drag. Something desperately avoided because it meant a potential domino death or mucking up the combat area.

 

Now it’s all cold casualty projection to the next potential gain.

 

For the first time ever I’m liking the close combat dynamics for my Infantry Squads. Originally looking at the rules I was a little concerned. Free movement, free shooting, to a free charge fundamentally wasn’t going to do shooting armies any favors. My guess for Guard has been the point cost, orders, and the current game design around rapid fire weapons.

 

So unless Chapter Aprroved or until 9th in years hence change things my Infantry Squads (with CCs) will continue doing a 12” dance with the enemy.

Edited November 2, 2017 by Guardsman Bob

[micahwc]

I love the idea of withdrawing from close combat and getting ordered to return fire. It's very fluffy with squishy human infantry. We get attacked, we withdraw, we shoot you a bunch.

[TheShredder]

This came up in a different thread, but I thought this would be a good place to ask for opinions: let's say that your standard Infantry Squads have Plasmaguns and either Bolters or Plasma Pistols. What do you think is the best loadout for a frontline/screening squad?

 

Should it have the same gear? Should it have a Flamer? Should it have something cheaper (e.g. a Grenade Launcher)? Should it have a Plasma Pistol? Should it have no special weapons at all?