=][= Unit(s) of the week: Infantry Squads =][=

[Altasmurf]

Honestly all of them work

[Halfpint100]

If you're not using Heavy Weapons, what Doctrines do you think are best for running large numbers of Infantry Squads?

 

All have their merits. Vostroyan, steel legion are good for the lasguns. Tallarn for speed, valhallan for less moral loss, moridan for better overwatch and LD. Catachan is less useful with str 4 and +1LD if officers are within 6", cadian is also useful, but requires you to be standing still.

 

My best 2 would be vostroyans for 30" lasguns and a sweet strat for +1 to hit or tallarn for the speed

[OnboardG1]

Catachans are superb counter-charge units when they have support from their special characters. Heck you can make them crazy strong with Harker in there too.

[NatBrannigan]

No-one ever mentions Mordians as a "best" regiment for infantry. Am I missing something there? The +1 LD and overwatch bonus is good but not as good as other doctrines, but the Stratagem and order are excellent.

 

The Stratagem in particularly makes lasguns utterly lethal, and the order allows those same lasguns to target hard to get at characters.

 

Seems good to me? Or have I been blinded by smart uniforms, polished boots and neat ranks!?

[OnboardG1]

No-one ever mentions Mordians as a "best" regiment for infantry. Am I missing something there? The +1 LD and overwatch bonus is good but not as good as other doctrines, but the Stratagem and order are excellent.

 

The Stratagem in particularly makes lasguns utterly lethal, and the order allows those same lasguns to target hard to get at characters.

 

Seems good to me? Or have I been blinded by smart uniforms, polished boots and neat ranks!?

 

Mordians are definitely a good regiment for the infantry squad, but you also have to sacrifice board control to do it. Their strat is also a little inefficient unless you blob the squad up (which, to be fair, is a legit strategy with Mordians because of being Ld8 in parade formation).

[Halfpint100]

No-one ever mentions Mordians as a "best" regiment for infantry. Am I missing something there? The +1 LD and overwatch bonus is good but not as good as other doctrines, but the Stratagem and order are excellent.

 

The Stratagem in particularly makes lasguns utterly lethal, and the order allows those same lasguns to target hard to get at characters.

 

Seems good to me? Or have I been blinded by smart uniforms, polished boots and neat ranks!?

I like mordians. But I would want to use the model's for that regiment. I also play fluidly. Having to keep them Base to Base reduces deep strike denial and forces my units to be more predictable in deployment. Also tricker to get cover with small areas of cover

[NatBrannigan]

Valid points but I don't consider bunching them up a downside. I know it's worse as far as gameplay goes but as soon as templates went away, I started playing with my squads ranked up. Couldn't help myself!

 

It's just the devastating lasguns with the volley fire stratagem that makes me surprised they are not talked about that much. The models being quite unique in style might be a reason for that though you're right.

[Guardsman Bob]

Volley Fire would be a lot more impressive if it wasn’t restricted by Match Play rules. That and keeping track of so many dice sets is time consuming. I’m trying to get a special cup set up where it can be done in two batch rolls, had to buy more dice. Adding a special weapon would have helped as well.

 

If anyone really wants to kill the game pace combine two squads and then do Volley Fire with FRFSRF inside 12”.

[duz_]

Volley Fire would be a lot more impressive if it wasn’t restricted by Match Play rules. That and keeping track of so many dice sets is time consuming. I’m trying to get a special cup set up where it can be done in two batch rolls, had to buy more dice. Adding a special weapon would have helped as well.

 

If anyone really wants to kill the game pace combine two squads and then do Volley Fire with FRFSRF inside 12”.

 

That would be kinda amusing!

I was thinking Volley Fire + sniping characters :D

[Finkmilkana]

Well, it is nice, sure. But in the end it is only 1/6 more damage for one squad, i.e. as good as having 3-4 (maybe 8 with combined squad, but then it’s already 2 CP) more guardsmen fire. Getting the offensiv output of 20 points of units might look nice, but won’t do much. It’s a bit better on HWT/veterans etc, but still not game changing.

 

The mordian doctrine on the other hand only really works against meele armies that have no way of mitigating (charge transport in first etc) or outride denying (psi powers, banshees etc) overwatch. And even then it is the only doctrine that is not a straight bonus, but forces you to give up the deep strike counter/board just for the theoretical chance of using it if charged.

 

So while the feel of Mordians is great and walking up the board ranked up certainly looks cool, tactically they are just not that good. Too much limitation for somewhat small boni.

Edited November 6, 2017 by Finkmilkana

[TheShredder]

Regarding the Mordian Stratagem, the issue for me is that it only affects one unit.

 

Maybe I'm alone here but I just don't see individual infantry squads putting out enough firepower to be worth boosting in this manner.

 

 

A further consideration is that this Stratagem is incredibly easy to negate, given the number of '-1 to hit' effects rolling around at the moment. In contrast, the straight +1 to hit from Vostroyans or Cadians can't be negated in this manner.

[holydiver]

Anybody use Sniper rifles? Maybe with Heavy bolters?

[Tirak]

I used to slip in Sniper Rifles when I had a couple of points left over, however they're just really really meh. They're basically bolters with +12in of range, so you may as well save a point and the mobility and just give your Sergeant a boltgun. Mordians especially have no use for the Sniper Rifle in an infantry squad thanks to their orders.

[Imperator Deus]

I think Sniper Rifles do best in Command Squads for the BS 3+, failing that I would take them in a Special Weapons Squad to try to build up some extra shots. Sniper Rifles are nice because they are so cheap, but one on it's own in an Infantry Squad just isn't worth it, unless you're really tight on points and couldn't fit anything else. It's better than nothing in an Infantry Squad, but just barely!

[Tirak]

I would argue that the sniper rifle is worse than nothing in most infantry squads. It's a -1BS if you move, your BS will never be better than a coinflip on a single shot weapon (Barring search lights) and you miss out on potentially 3 more shots with FRFSRF.

[FallenSoldiers]

Plus, with the removal of -needing- commissars in your elites slot... Ratlings make way better snipers.

[CoffeeGrunt]

Paper Snipers. :P

[holydiver]

I appreciate the discussion.  It looks like I'm going to be keeping my Infantry Squads light and running my Heavy and Special weapons in HWS and SWS, respectively.  I'm planning two builds for my Infantry Squads, which will be separated fluff- and modeling-wise into entirely separate regiments:

 

Tallarn Doctrine: Bolter, Plasma gun; supported by HWS of Mortar and (ineffective, but fluffy) Missile Launchers, and SWS with Flamers and (I guess?) more Plasma.

 

Vostroyan Doctrine: Bolter, Lascannon; supported by HWS with Lascannons. (Maybe these should be Cadian, but I like the idea of not having to babysit my backline.)

 

Both builds will be keeping Commanders nearby, and consolidating into 20-man squads partly to maximize order efficiency, which brings me to another question:

 

Who's consolidating squads?

[micahwc]

I lost interest in consolidating squads as a strategy once I realized that you could only consolidate two squads per turn, so massed consolidation isn't really viable. I think it would probably work best in a situation where you have either a heavily damaged infantry squad that you want to reinforce, or you have an objective that you really want to hold with 20 guys.

[FallenSoldiers]

If they would FAQ it to be able to happen before the start of the game I’d consider consolidating to reduce drops and to form a real “platoon style” blob again.

 

As is, I agree that unless a squad is decimated and I really don’t want to lose something or someone.

[Halfpint100]

With moral also being an issue. Big squads have lost their appeal

[FallenSoldiers]

I dunno, if I could stick 20 guardsmen on a backfield objective, preferably in cover, I’d do it.

 

Sure, it would take some logistics but 20 in cover, with the “take cover” stratagem and psychic barrier would be fun for a turn. 20 T3 2+ saves....

 

Especially if a Commissar Tank, officer, and a Flag were nearby to give my Catachans Ld11.

 

And then use deadly traps when they charge!

 

Oh, if only all the stars would align for that.

[TheShredder]

I think, in order for big squads to hold any appeal for me, Commissars would first have to be un-nerfed.

[librisrouge]

I recently played a 50 PL game with 12 Infantry squads with lascannons, plasmagun, and the occasional bolter, backed by as many officers as I could pull off with the remaining points. They were Cadian and it was AWESOME. Admittedly, I barely moved. But I'm fine with that because I hate moving. Really, really hate moving (we use too many models for a fully mobile army and healthy backs.) Consistently getting full re-rolls was super fun and worked out real well. At 2k, I could easily picture adding more to this army to give it some mobility and ability to advance, while leaving this as a firebase force.

[Vel'Cona]

Since I run a blended force, I'll definitely be trying the Officio Prefectus Command tank to help anchor my Infantry Squad lines, especially since I'll have plenty of CP to spare!  :)