Forgeworld FAQ

[Zamtro]

Well - The first FAQ for Index Astartes Forgeworld has come out... and their ruling is any of the <Chapter> models that you insert the chapter into... Can not be taken by Grey Knights (and Deathwatch, Legion of the Damned) Which means GK do not get to take the Xiphon Interceptor... This will affect anyone wanting to run a pure GK force for any bonuses once our Dex is out =\ 

 

Otherwise you could leave it painted as whatever and just say it's from another chapter and thats their colours. Still kinda sucks!

[Adeptus]

Those models still have the Imperium keyword, yes? So you can still take them in the same Imperium detachment with Grey Knights?

[Kastor Krieg]

 

 

Q. There is no datasheet for Bran Redmaw – is there a datasheet I should use for this character?

A. Use the Space Marine Captain datasheet on page 12 of Index: Imperium 1 to represent this character, using the Space Wolves wargear lists on page 131 rather than the standard Space Marine wargear lists where appropriate.

 

Q. There is no datasheet for Shadow Captain Korvydae – is there a datasheet I should use for this character?

A. Use the Space Marine Captain datasheet on page 12 of Index: Imperium 1 to represent this character.

 

Q. There is no datasheet for Minotaurs Sergeant Hamath Kraatos – is there a datasheet I should use for this character?

A. Use this model to represent a Devastator Space Marine, using the Devastator Squad datasheet on page 51 of Index: Imperium 1.

 

Q. There is no datasheet for Veteran Sergeant Haas – is there a datasheet I should use for this model?

A. Use this model to either represent a Sergeant, using the Tactical Squad datasheet, or a Veteran Sergeant, using the Sternguard Veteran Squad datasheet, on pages 28 and 33 respectively of Index: Imperium 1.

 

Q. There is no datasheet for Dreadnought-Brother Halar – is there a datasheet I should use for this model?

A. Use the Dreadnought datasheet on page 35 of Index: Imperium 1 to represent this model, and it has an additional wargear option; it may replace its assault cannon with a flamestorm cannon.

 

This is just pathetic. Yh.

[Waking Dreamer]

So for the dex bonuses, does that mean if it isn't pure GK in your army won't get ANY of the bonuses, or does it mean just that specific model not under GK won't get bonuses?

[Valerian]

So for the dex bonuses, does that mean if it isn't pure GK in your army won't get ANY of the bonuses, or does it mean just that specific model not under GK won't get bonuses?

 

Well, we don't know for sure, yet, but we can expect new army-wide special rules, which the Xiphon and similar FW models wouldn't get, and they wouldn't benefit from the typical command buff auras, like the reroll to hit for being near a Grand Master.  Additionally, we've been told that there will be brand new army-specific Stratagems for you to spend your Command Points on, so I assume you'll only get to use those Stratagems if you take a "pure" Grey Knights detachment/army.  Otherwise, you can take the Xiphon, but will be stuck with the basic Stratagems from the rulebook.

 

V

[Zamtro]

 

So for the dex bonuses, does that mean if it isn't pure GK in your army won't get ANY of the bonuses, or does it mean just that specific model not under GK won't get bonuses?

 

Well, we don't know for sure, yet, but we can expect new army-wide special rules, which the Xiphon and similar FW models wouldn't get, and they wouldn't benefit from the typical command buff auras, like the reroll to hit for being near a Grand Master.  Additionally, we've been told that there will be brand new army-specific Stratagems for you to spend your Command Points on, so I assume you'll only get to use those Stratagems if you take a "pure" Grey Knights detachment/army.  Otherwise, you can take the Xiphon, but will be stuck with the basic Stratagems from the rulebook.

 

V

 

Yeah that is what I would suspect. If a detachment restriction granting special rules of some form or a bonus states you need to be ALL GK, then you'll have to take the Xiphon in a separate detachment.

[Baluc]

 

Q. There is no datasheet for Bran Redmaw – is there a datasheet I should use for this character?

A. Use the Space Marine Captain datasheet on page 12 of Index: Imperium 1 to represent this character, using the Space Wolves wargear lists on page 131 rather than the standard Space Marine wargear lists where appropriate.

 

Q. There is no datasheet for Shadow Captain Korvydae – is there a datasheet I should use for this character?

A. Use the Space Marine Captain datasheet on page 12 of Index: Imperium 1 to represent this character.

 

Q. There is no datasheet for Minotaurs Sergeant Hamath Kraatos – is there a datasheet I should use for this character?

A. Use this model to represent a Devastator Space Marine, using the Devastator Squad datasheet on page 51 of Index: Imperium 1.

 

Q. There is no datasheet for Veteran Sergeant Haas – is there a datasheet I should use for this model?

A. Use this model to either represent a Sergeant, using the Tactical Squad datasheet, or a Veteran Sergeant, using the Sternguard Veteran Squad datasheet, on pages 28 and 33 respectively of Index: Imperium 1.

 

Q. There is no datasheet for Dreadnought-Brother Halar – is there a datasheet I should use for this model?

A. Use the Dreadnought datasheet on page 35 of Index: Imperium 1 to represent this model, and it has an additional wargear option; it may replace its assault cannon with a flamestorm cannon.

This is just pathetic. Yh.

No model no rules.

[Reclusiarch Darius]

Yeah I saw that too. RIP Badab campaign, you were too good for this world :( . Tis a sad truth that if they're not shilling a character model for you to buy, they don't care. 

 

It's such a slap in the face to people with armies built out of those Chapters too. Would it really be that hard to port their rules over to 8th? IIRC barring Sevrin Loth, most of the characters were pretty flavourful and fun, nothing that powerful. The Chapter specific rules were also cool, added extra dimension to the Ultramarine-focused main codex that it was sorely lacking. 

 

Hardly surprising FW don't care about Grey Knights. I still die a little inside when I remember Vraks. They even bothered to include artwork and lore in the campaign books...and then all we get is an okay Malleus Lord with anti-Daemon abilities. And now we can't even take the Xiphon anymore. 

 

That's probably the thing I find most distasteful about 8th. It's the total lack of effort. Even FW seem to be infected with it. They're putting out the bare minimum required, playing to the sunken cost fallacy that is pretty much required to be a long-term player. I don't really hate the manipulation, it's just sad how little effort they're putting into it.

[Archon_77]

I don't know if it's a lack of effort so much as it's just an attempt to get everybody on the same page baseline, so that they can adequately actually for the first time ever attempt to balance the game.

 

They seem to really be making an effort to get codexes out quickly and efficiently, and therefore avoid the overpower curves. Remember the old days? We'd have to wait years sometimes not only for codexes but for codexes that could match the last codex in terms of raw power.

 

So this has to be part of that process... Everything seems bland/boring/uninspired, because you have to reestablish a Baseline. And like it or not forgeworld always led to some shenanigans as far as manipulating power. Especially after forgeworld became a part of the regular game at a competitive level. This fixes that somewhat, by making things playable albeit a little "vanilla".

Edited July 10, 2017 by Archon_77

[Kenderleech]

Shadow captain korvidae has a model.

[Sothalor]

Shadow captain korvidae has a model.

Correction: Space Marine Captain Datasheet has a model.

[Adeptus]

I don't mind it. But then, I've always been a fan of minimalist rules over complex ones, so using the same rules profile for different characters is totally fine with me.

[Kastor Krieg]

No model no rules.

What you on about, mate. Korvydae has a model, they previewed Redmaw's model, Vet Sarge Haas bits were specified as part of the Red Scorpion upgrade kit.

[Reclusiarch Darius]

I don't know if it's a lack of effort so much as it's just an attempt to get everybody on the same page baseline, so that they can adequately actually for the first time ever attempt to balance the game. 

 

They seem to really be making an effort to get codexes out quickly and efficiently, and therefore avoid the overpower curves. Remember the old days? We'd have to wait years sometimes not only for codexes but for codexes that could match the last codex in terms of raw power.

 

So this has to be part of that process... Everything seems bland/boring/uninspired, because you have to reestablish a Baseline. And like it or not forgeworld always led to some shenanigans as far as manipulating power. Especially after forgeworld became a part of the regular game at a competitive level. This fixes that somewhat, by making things playable albeit a little "vanilla". 

 

8th isn't remotely balanced so I dunno why you'd think that's the objective. GW couldn't care less about that. 

 

They're getting us to playtest so they can tweak the new kits to appeal. I don't mind that concept in theory, the execution has been a bit flat though.

 

I guess my hope is you're right, and FW will flesh out those Chapters with some other release. It is saddening to abandon a popular bit of Marine history though. 

 

>Forge World is to blame for 40k imbalance

I never tire of this inane meme. The most broken things in 40k almost always originated from either core rulebook or core army books. Eldar and Tau dominated 7th without a single FW model being required. The obsession with big battlesuits came from Riptides in 6th and Stormsurges in 7th, FW releases were an extension of that trend. Also, nothing FW released for Eldar compares to the Aeldari abomination in the twilight of 7th.

[Baluc]

 

No model no rules.

What you on about, mate. Korvydae has a model, they previewed Redmaw's model, Vet Sarge Haas bits were specified as part of the Red Scorpion upgrade kit.

 

 

Only 1 models could be purchased, and FW have been flogging him off as a generic RG captain for years he is even in the HH section. Redmaw was never available for purchase mate so no one can be aggrieved since he has no rules. Somethings were going to be lost this is a big nothing sandwich. 

[the jeske]

I never tire of this inane meme. The most broken things in 40k almost always originated from either core rulebook or core army books. Eldar and Tau dominated 7th without a single FW model being required. The obsession with big battlesuits came from Riptides in 6th and Stormsurges in 7th, FW releases were an extension of that trend. Also, nothing FW released for Eldar compares to the Aeldari abomination in the twilight of 7th.

 

 

do you remember 4th ed hellfire mortar shells or pre fix lucius dreadnoughts? Or how at some point IG armies had ot be started with taking 9 saber weapon platforms  to work etc?

 

Sad thing. I hope this either gets changed somehow, or that GK codex is going to be good enough to run without FW units.

[Gentlemanloser]

Ah sabre platforms.

 

Up there with necron arcanthrites (i think their name was) and Lloth to make folk walk away from anything FW.

[Archon_77]

I never said forgeworld was completely to blame for imbalance in the game.

 

But I am saying it sure didn't help.

[MorgothNL]

 

 

>Forge World is to blame for 40k imbalance

I never tire of this inane meme. The most broken things in 40k almost always originated from either core rulebook or core army books. Eldar and Tau dominated 7th without a single FW model being required. The obsession with big battlesuits came from Riptides in 6th and Stormsurges in 7th, FW releases were an extension of that trend. Also, nothing FW released for Eldar compares to the Aeldari abomination in the twilight of 7th.

 

I'm with you. I love FW for the models and for bringing some more original models in my list. But as soon as I take them, my group is like 'Oh, that's FW that's OP'. 90% of the times they don't even know the rules. I took Eldar Shadow Specters the other week, and my opponent called it OP. So next day I replaced them by Dark Reapers which are better (most of the time). They killed much much more, but still he said the Spectres were OP.

 

It has come to a point that I'm actually building all my lists without FW, because I'm sick and tired of people calling FW OP just for the sake of it. So you end up facing a 6 Storm Raven list, but my Relic Javelin land speeder is the broken thing on the table -.-/

[Reclusiarch Darius]

do you remember 4th ed hellfire mortar shells or pre fix lucius dreadnoughts? Or how at some point IG armies had ot be started with taking 9 saber weapon platforms  to work etc?

 

Nope, irrelevant and had less of an impact on the game than core rulebook/army book imba. I remember Leafblower Guard in 5th, and Air Cav was a thing as well. Flyer spam was all the rage in 6th for Necrons. 

Ah sabre platforms.

 

Up there with necron arcanthrites (i think their name was) and Lloth to make folk walk away from anything FW. 

 

The only one I vaguely rate is Loth. He's the most snowflake Librarian ever. Sabre platforms and 'slightly better wraiths, which were already busted in the main codex' aren't relevant. 

I'm with you. I love FW for the models and for bringing some more original models in my list. But as soon as I take them, my group is like 'Oh, that's FW that's OP'. 90% of the times they don't even know the rules. I took Eldar Shadow Specters the other week, and my opponent called it OP. So next day I replaced them by Dark Reapers which are better (most of the time). They killed much much more, but still he said the Spectres were OP.

 

It has come to a point that I'm actually building all my lists without FW, because I'm sick and tired of people calling FW OP just for the sake of it. So you end up facing a 6 Storm Raven list, but my Relic Javelin land speeder is the broken thing on the table -.-/

 

It's a cult based around being petty about where your toy soldiers came from vs some other's stuff being resin and from another subsidary of GW. I don't really mind conversions or proxying from other systems, but if you are going to be nitpicky, at least be consistent. Rules + models produced by the same company are fine, and I can't recall anything FW produced to rival the abominations that GW spawned from main army books.

 

My advice is to avoid such people and find better groups to play with. I find the anti-FW crowd has died out locally, especially now 30k is a thing and was until quite recently more popular and active than 40k.

[the jeske]

and I can't recall anything FW produced to rival the abominations that GW spawned from main army books.

 

 

For which faction? Because IG never had anything better then saber weapon platforms, the Dakka flyer now or the hellfire shell mortar back when it was chasing whole armies off the table [including those with fearless].

Also anything with 2 turbolasers or the eldar titans was broken as hell, and fit in to a 1500pts army.

[Archon_77]

I worry that this thread is getting more than a little bit off track, and at the very least seems to be leading to a case of skub. Let's just agree to disagree on Forge World's impact to the competitive nature of the game

 

https://1d4chan.org/wiki/Skub

Edited July 23, 2017 by Archon_77