Ranting about HQs (the lack thereof) and whatnot

[Magos_Adephus]

I got angry and wrote this, I thought you all might enjoy a laugh.

https://aveomnissiah.wordpress.com/2017/07/12/the-problem-of-cawl-and-hqs/

 

TL;DR

 

Cawl is great and all but the lack of HQs has a lot of AdMech lists looking very similar, which can be bad.  AdMech is pretty inflexible in list building and uniqueness without special force orgs like in 7th, whereas other factors are insanely diverse with characters, HQ, detachments that work essentially as focre orgs from 7th, etc.  Also some simple ideas to fix the issue quickly, that of course no one at GW will ever see.

[mmimzie]

Would be cool in admech had a special rule throughout the whole army called "Alpha/Beta Protocol" or something of the sort.

Something that means if no more senior unit is in a detachment, than the most senior unit may be taken as an HQ. So, if your detachment has no Techpriest dominus but 2 enginseers than the engineseers may be taken as HQs, but if you have data smiths than the data smith would be the HQ's and tech priest couldn't be used as HQs.

Other than that it's whatever to be honest. 

[Brother Captain Sirus]

In general I think ad mech could do with some extra units all over, as I was so excited after a break from the hobby to see they had been released in my absence only to find there was very little options, But on to the subject at hand.

 

Possible options that would be great to see:

An Auxilia Myrmidon HQ and secutors/destructor for 40k and plastic (I can dream)

A skitarii Tribune, as they are described as being low level commanders and it could be a good option for a cheaper HQ, less than 100pts.

Hopefully more variety will be added with the new codes as it was stated that a couple of books may drop with an extra unit or two being added.

[Charlo]

I think when it comes to Cyraxus we'll get rules for a few of the 30k HQs (like Chaos did no less!)

 

One will probably be a robot based HQ for all of the Automata and a Skitarii one couldn't hurt....

[Vel'Cona]

AdMech need a codex.  It's just the state of the game for them, unfortunately.  Until then, we're working with half to a third of the options as established armies.

 

FW Mechanicum inclusion is a nice temporary solution, though with how shoddily those rules were put together I have a feeling it'll get worse before it gets better.  Not to mention the insanely high price points for international buyers.

[dogfender]

I would really like the following:

• More options for HQ such as an abeyant
• More servitor options, combat etc.
• At least a Transport.. considering they make everything for the imperium, they should have the requisition rule the inquisition has..

[Tiger9gamer]

AdMech need a codex.  It's just the state of the game for them, unfortunately.  Until then, we're working with half to a third of the options as established armies.

 

FW Mechanicum inclusion is a nice temporary solution, though with how shoddily those rules were put together I have a feeling it'll get worse before it gets better.  Not to mention the insanely high price points for international buyers.

 

 

yea, I agree on the codex. for the indexes We have so much stuff juuuuust within arms reach, but until then we just need... something else than what we got.

[lancerusso]

I just want more skitarii stuff, and no transport. Scout moves, please. As well as a tribune, a legate and restoring skitarii alphas back to 2w status

[MithrilForge]

all good points,

yeah i believe we need a temporary  "Emergency Command Protocol" until a codex drops,it would be a helpful quick fix i.e as mmimzie stated..

 

If No Transport is incoming then Yes to "Scout" & even "infiltrate" for Skitarii troops,it would be fluffy and also helpful to boost their use/effectiveness.

 

Mithril

[Endova]

Admech was one of the armies I considered when I was getting back into the hobby for 8th. I was turned off by overall how few options they have.

 

The Techpriest Dominus is pathetic. All the lore for techpriests talk about how almost no two are the same, yet we have a monopose model with 4 options. It should have been the most customizable HQ option ever made, enough to put Space Marine captains to shame. By no means would I expect to cover every option in the box, just to give us the choice. One can hardly get into the flavor of Admech without being at least a little inventive. Dominii should be able to take the tracks from Kaataphrons, all manner of electro whips and flails, servo skulls, digital weapons, servo fists and claws, data links, and all manner of gadetry, and this should be before even exploring specialist techpriest types like Logis, Magos (and Explorator), Genator and Artisan. The standard Dominus should be the baseline HQ choice with dozens of options to make unique models.

 

Also there should definitely be a Skitarii command squad. I don't really have a ton to say about that one, other than it should provide some aura style buffs like SM and IG command squads. Since GW loves making boxes that can make one of two units, maybe also include options for an elites squad, that can deepstrike in with a couple heavy/special weapons.

 

Also whats up with the Adeptus Mechanicus, the organization that supplies the war materiel for the entire Imperium, having two vehicles to their name? (Not counting Lords of War, obviously.) The Dunecrawler is great, don't get me wrong. But so long as a forge world makes its tithes, why the Warp can't they pull extra Rhinos/Razorbacks/Predators off the assembly line for the Skitarii Legions to cruise around in? Hell, it would have been a great excuse for GW to update the kit so you don't have to have rubber bands to hold everything in place while you glue it together. Bundle it with an extra sprue with some Cognis pintile weapons, an Admech exclusive turret and some gear iconography, and you've got a great box that you sell to almost any Imperial player.

 

Anyway this is turning into a rant, but yeah. For the faction that supposedly makes all the cool toys, they have a really disappointing amount of options.

[dogfender]

Yeah an easy fix on the vehicles would allow them to requisition any vehicle like the Inquisition. In my mine that should also include vehicles from the gs cult.

The ad mech make everything and should have access to whatever they want, even within reason.

Given some standard vehicles and then given a kit or two for unique admech tech they haven't given the imperium

[Belisarius Cawl]

Fresh off the assembly line here  . 

 

Are you all saying this isn't a good army to start with? I was thinking an army from Mars would be exciting to play. Are they really handicapped? would it be better to wait for a codex and not get the Index yet?

[mertbl]

I'd like to see a 6 legged dune crawler transport. Just make the onager a bit bigger, be pretty cool.

 

A 40-80 point HQ would be pretty baller. A subordinate tech priest or skittari prime alpha (new here, don't know what they would be called.)

[Belisarius Cawl]

It's a shame Techmarines don't have keyword Mars to supplement the lack of HQ units.

[Tiger9gamer]

Admech was one of the armies I considered when I was getting back into the hobby for 8th. I was turned off by overall how few options they have.

 

The Techpriest Dominus is pathetic. All the lore for techpriests talk about how almost no two are the same, yet we have a monopose model with 4 options. It should have been the most customizable HQ option ever made, enough to put Space Marine captains to shame. By no means would I expect to cover every option in the box, just to give us the choice. One can hardly get into the flavor of Admech without being at least a little inventive. Dominii should be able to take the tracks from Kaataphrons, all manner of electro whips and flails, servo skulls, digital weapons, servo fists and claws, data links, and all manner of gadetry, and this should be before even exploring specialist techpriest types like Logis, Magos (and Explorator), Genator and Artisan. The standard Dominus should be the baseline HQ choice with dozens of options to make unique models.

 

Also there should definitely be a Skitarii command squad. I don't really have a ton to say about that one, other than it should provide some aura style buffs like SM and IG command squads. Since GW loves making boxes that can make one of two units, maybe also include options for an elites squad, that can deepstrike in with a couple heavy/special weapons.

 

Also whats up with the Adeptus Mechanicus, the organization that supplies the war materiel for the entire Imperium, having two vehicles to their name? (Not counting Lords of War, obviously.) The Dunecrawler is great, don't get me wrong. But so long as a forge world makes its tithes, why the Warp can't they pull extra Rhinos/Razorbacks/Predators off the assembly line for the Skitarii Legions to cruise around in? Hell, it would have been a great excuse for GW to update the kit so you don't have to have rubber bands to hold everything in place while you glue it together. Bundle it with an extra sprue with some Cognis pintile weapons, an Admech exclusive turret and some gear iconography, and you've got a great box that you sell to almost any Imperial player.

 

Anyway this is turning into a rant, but yeah. For the faction that supposedly makes all the cool toys, they have a really disappointing amount of options.

 

 

 

welcome to the forge, brother! glad you see issues that are easily fixed  cannot say as much for the people at my GW, but i'm glad i'm not the only one seeing these issues!

 

 

Fresh off the assembly line here  . 

 

Are you all saying this isn't a good army to start with? I was thinking an army from Mars would be exciting to play. Are they really handicapped? would it be better to wait for a codex and not get the Index yet?

 

 

Yes they are handicapped, but the stuff we have that is good is really good at it's job. Onagers can punch holes in tanks the size of said tanks, Robots can provide some good supporting fire and cover-cleaners, and the non-skitarii infantry can put the hurt on infantry and tanks alike if the right buffs are applied, but for regular human infantry the tanks are the go-to right now seems to be the guard with their cheap infantry and cool tanks. the priests are expensive but supplimented right (say heavy support admec, imperial guard infantry and transports) we can make a cool, and formidable force!

[Xisor]

Logically, there's a few varieties of credible HQ unit that should vaguely alter what's being done with the force, isn't there?

 

E.g. for Skitarii you've got, say, Alpha+ in addition to regular Alphas. These can be Ranger/Vanguard/Ruststalker/Dragoon and Ballistarii (either onager or ironstrider?) I'm sceptical as to whether Sicarian Infiltrators should constitute HQs.

 

And for the ordained side of things, you have:

Magos Dominus (which seem to be not a far cry from Forge World's/FFG's Secutors in their remit), which is as we have.

Techpriest Enginseers (again, as per usual - herding vehicles and/or servitors)

 

But I'd contend that Cybernetica Datasmiths should totally be HQ units. Similarly for Knight leaders (though they're the aspect of the Cult I know least about).

 

From a wishes/fishes perspective, I think it'd important to have an electro-priest cyber-abbot type being involved in proceedings too.

 

Of course, in pure game mechanics, it would be useful to have them subdivide into areas of expertise to offer a good spread for the army.

E.g.

Choice -- Major focus -- Secondary focus

Dominus -- Canticles -- Healing

Enginseer -- Healing -- Canticles

Cybernetica -- Boosting Robots -- Healing

Ruststalker Alpha+ -- Boosting Nearby -- Data Tether

Vanguard Alpha+ -- Debuff -- Data Tether

Ranger Alpha+ -- Data Tether -- Debuff

Ballistarii Alpha+ -- Data Tether -- Boosting Nearby

Dragoon Alpha+ -- Boosting Nearby -- Debuff

 

That affords them a degree of logical usefulness, as well as allowing variety, reinforcement of focus and so forth.

 

So the traditional 'tanking' would using the healing/canticles abilities of the Dominus, Enginseer and Datasmith to go to town with a robot maniple.

 

An alpha-strike force might look to have a lot of the boosting nearby/debuff pieces, perhaps combined with judicious placement of canticles.

 

A more 'combined arms' approach may reinforce canticles and data-tether bonuses.

 

That could all be simplified too, with a generic 'Alpha+' Skitarii HQ that, instead of having an aura-effect very much wires into the various data-tethers (and perhaps amplifies canticles or something) or gives a more interesting mechanical effect beyond mere buffs?

[MagicHat]

I would like a box of Magos Auxilia with 4 servitors and:

Enginseer, same as now. Boosted Master of Machines from servitors with servo-arms.

Lacryamaerta, an apotecary essentially. 

Reductor, re-rolls to wound when shooting for 1 Cult Mechanicus or vehicles within 6".

 

Skitarii Alpha with four arms to equip skitarii gear and re-rolls 1 to wound aura.

[Shinespider]

Is kill for box kinda like the exalted sorcerers box that thousand sons have - three tech priests and a billion options.

[Vel'Cona]

Is kill for box kinda like the exalted sorcerers box that thousand sons have - three tech priests and a billion options.

 

What we would need is for the codex to actually address several "builds" or sub-sets of Techpriests, ie. Biologis versus. Cybernetica, etc.  This could be done similar to how they treated Inquisitors regarding the various Ordos and gave them unique options/entries.

[Heliomanes]

Yeah, that's what FW did in the Horus Heresy Mechanicum army lists. Fluffy and fun. I'm a bit wary that GW seems to avoid listing options that aren't in the official model kit though. I really hope that changes. Conversions and counts as is a huge part of the hobby for me.