MeltaRange Posted July 12, 2017 Share Posted July 12, 2017 If this has already been discussed...apologies! I'm trying to decide which units I have will get Chainswords and which get Bolt Pistols. I feel like Chainswords are useful on Kill Teams that either are meant to charge things (making the +1A more meaningful in the first fight phase) or include a Vanguard Veteran. (so they will most likely never be in combat for a friendly shooting phase and might as well get +1A instead of nothing) For everything else, I feel like Bolt Pistol is better. The reason really boils down to, if you are charged - you're either going to die, or live to fight in the next (your) turn, where the Bolt Pistol is going to do more damage. Anyone have any thoughts on this? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/336565-offhand-weapon-chainsword-or-bolt-pistol/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Finkmilkana Posted July 12, 2017 Share Posted July 12, 2017 Assuming the enemy attacks: Against most things (everything T4 or 3+, depending on ammo) the bolt pistol does about twice as many wounds, but only attacks once (your shooting) instead of twice. Here it is a toss up. Against 2+ or >T5 the pistol is better. Against T3 and > 4+, the sword is better, but those won't charge you that often. The sword is clearly better if you often charge weakened shooting units to finish it off/stop returning fire. I like charging my shooty squads in to overwhelm enemies, so I usually take the sword (outside of stalker squads). But if you positively think you won't, the pistol is better I guess. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/336565-offhand-weapon-chainsword-or-bolt-pistol/#findComment-4817131 Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjrwaud Posted July 12, 2017 Share Posted July 12, 2017 I'm also curious about this... sorry if my addition is a bit off, but I'm thinking of an example where you take a veteran with either one of the options (bolter + chainsword or bolt pistol) and the number of possible wounds they -could- cause in a perfect round. 1) Bolter / Chainsword Your turn, > 12" range, 1 bolter shot, no CC = 1 Your turn, < 12" range, 2 bolter shots, no CC = 2 Your turn, Melee range, no pistol shots, CC (2 A + 1 A for chainsword) = 3 Their turn, Melee range, no pistol shots, CC (2 A + 1 A for chainsword... if you survive to fight back) = 3 2) Bolter / Bolt pistol Your turn, > 12" range, 1 bolter shot, no CC = 1 Your turn, < 12" range, 2 bolter shots, no CC = 2 Your turn, Melee range, 1 pistol shot*, CC (2 A) = 3 Their turn, Melee range, no pistol shots, CC (2 A... if you survive to fight back) = 2 * Special issue ammo makes this better than an extra chainsword attack. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/336565-offhand-weapon-chainsword-or-bolt-pistol/#findComment-4817164 Share on other sites More sharing options...
dicebod Posted July 12, 2017 Share Posted July 12, 2017 General consensus seems to be that if you are being charged and don't have some sort of dedicated CCW, you won't last through the fight phase to make your pistols do anything of value. In that case, I'd stick to the chainsword - if you give all your average vets a chainsword and your Blackshield/Sergeant something fancier, all your guys have 3 attacks. Irbis, mjrwaud and Mobius0288 3 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/336565-offhand-weapon-chainsword-or-bolt-pistol/#findComment-4817181 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nurgleprobe Posted July 12, 2017 Share Posted July 12, 2017 You also have to concider turns in which you charge, at that point it's better to have CCW. Since you're already using your better shooting weapons before the combat.Plus our Kill Teams CAN be fitted to jump out, shoot, jump in again. It really depends on how you're working your units. :o mjrwaud and Irbis 2 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/336565-offhand-weapon-chainsword-or-bolt-pistol/#findComment-4817205 Share on other sites More sharing options...
MeltaRange Posted July 12, 2017 Author Share Posted July 12, 2017 (edited) General consensus seems to be that if you are being charged and don't have some sort of dedicated CCW, you won't last through the fight phase to make your pistols do anything of value. In that case, I'd stick to the chainsword - if you give all your average vets a chainsword and your Blackshield/Sergeant something fancier, all your guys have 3 attacks. I pretty much disagree with that because when you are charged, they will always attack first, and your return attacks are meaningless as to whether you "survive" ... and if you are charged, then that means your turn (and your shooting phase) is next. In summary, if you are charged, you will be attacked once before you can shoot your pistols in combat and any CCW won't change that fact. Edited July 12, 2017 by MeltaRange Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/336565-offhand-weapon-chainsword-or-bolt-pistol/#findComment-4817206 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silas7 Posted July 12, 2017 Share Posted July 12, 2017 Simply go with power swords. Nurgleprobe and dicebod 2 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/336565-offhand-weapon-chainsword-or-bolt-pistol/#findComment-4817224 Share on other sites More sharing options...
dicebod Posted July 12, 2017 Share Posted July 12, 2017 General consensus seems to be that if you are being charged and don't have some sort of dedicated CCW, you won't last through the fight phase to make your pistols do anything of value. In that case, I'd stick to the chainsword - if you give all your average vets a chainsword and your Blackshield/Sergeant something fancier, all your guys have 3 attacks. I pretty much disagree with that because when you are charged, they will always attack first, and your return attacks are meaningless as to whether you "survive" ... and if you are charged, then that means your turn (and your shooting phase) is next. In summary, if you are charged, you will be attacked once before you can shoot your pistols in combat and any CCW won't change that fact. Oh sure....I was stuck in a 7th state of mind when I wrote that - old habits die hard Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/336565-offhand-weapon-chainsword-or-bolt-pistol/#findComment-4817228 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Macabre Slanneshi Prince Posted July 12, 2017 Share Posted July 12, 2017 I like to try a pistol or two in the unit, as I find that I've ended up with one model left tying up my dudes, keeping them from charging again. Being able to plug a few bolts into him could free the unit up for another charge. Of course, if they had a couple more attacks, they might not have ended up there in the first place! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/336565-offhand-weapon-chainsword-or-bolt-pistol/#findComment-4817240 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moostick Posted July 12, 2017 Share Posted July 12, 2017 I think of the pistol as a defensive weapon (no charge) and the chainsword as an offensive weapon (yes charge). But chainswords look 100 times better, so chainswords all day. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/336565-offhand-weapon-chainsword-or-bolt-pistol/#findComment-4817255 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Irbis Posted July 12, 2017 Share Posted July 12, 2017 General consensus seems to be that if you are being charged and don't have some sort of dedicated CCW, you won't last through the fight phase to make your pistols do anything of value. In that case, I'd stick to the chainsword - if you give all your average vets a chainsword and your Blackshield/Sergeant something fancier, all your guys have 3 attacks. This is my feeling to, pistols simply add nothing of value to DW units that isn't already covered by bolters. If you could use them after advancing, it would be different story, but yeah, 99% of the time you want swords, especially enemy (or you) might not stay long enough in combat for pistol use. Only on vanguard you're more likely to use pistols than melee weapons (and even then, you get to use two pistols, both being better than swords) plus you have FLY special rule so take two of them... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/336565-offhand-weapon-chainsword-or-bolt-pistol/#findComment-4817349 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vel'Cona Posted July 13, 2017 Share Posted July 13, 2017 I remember not even 3 months ago when everyone was complaining that DW Veterans had chainswords instead of bolt pistols. How times change . . . mjrwaud, Reyner and Trevak Dal 3 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/336565-offhand-weapon-chainsword-or-bolt-pistol/#findComment-4817885 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nurgleprobe Posted July 13, 2017 Share Posted July 13, 2017 The real answer to this tho is of course: Dual Bolt Pistols. Can thank me later. ;D Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/336565-offhand-weapon-chainsword-or-bolt-pistol/#findComment-4818025 Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluntpencil Posted July 13, 2017 Share Posted July 13, 2017 The real answer to this tho is of course: Dual Bolt Pistols. Can thank me later. ;D That's pretty good on Vanguards... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/336565-offhand-weapon-chainsword-or-bolt-pistol/#findComment-4818047 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silas7 Posted July 13, 2017 Share Posted July 13, 2017 I remember not even 3 months ago when everyone was complaining that DW Veterans had chainswords instead of bolt pistols. How times change . . . It was justified I tell ya! Vel'Cona 1 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/336565-offhand-weapon-chainsword-or-bolt-pistol/#findComment-4818128 Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrimsonReign Posted July 14, 2017 Share Posted July 14, 2017 correct me if I'm wrong but if you take bolter + bolt pistol you can fire both when within 12" ? (as models now fire all their equipped weapons) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/336565-offhand-weapon-chainsword-or-bolt-pistol/#findComment-4818689 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nurgleprobe Posted July 14, 2017 Share Posted July 14, 2017 correct me if I'm wrong but if you take bolter + bolt pistol you can fire both when within 12" ? (as models now fire all their equipped weapons) Sadly no, the way shooting works is that you pick one of three options for each model: All weapons (not counting pistols or grenades) All pistols One grenade (and only 1 per unit) CrimsonReign, Lexicanum and Vel'Cona 3 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/336565-offhand-weapon-chainsword-or-bolt-pistol/#findComment-4818722 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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