Grounded Gunslingers... dual pistols on normal vets?

[mjrwaud]

Would it ever be worthwhile to have normal killteam vets equipped with dual pistols?

 

I've got all the usual loadouts (bolters/stalkers/shotguns/frag etc.) covered for my vets / vanguard vets and a -tonne- of pistols in my bits box with a few more bodies to arm and I love the look of the gunslingers... could dual pistols on normal vets be used effectively (if not optimally)?

[Vel'Cona]

I haven't even looked into the possibility.  Is this a thing Veterans can do?

[mjrwaud]

Oh, they can certainly do it, normal killteam vets are capable of picking two pistols from the deathwatch equip list, which includes:

 

Bolt

Grav

Inferno

Hand Flamer

Plasma

 

... I really like the way it looks, but could vet gunslingers be used effectively in a killteam (and which guns?), say with a few similarly equipped vanguard vets to allow the fall back and shoot rule.

[hammer grimblood]

I think Dual Pistols should stay with the Vanguard but if you're set on it then I'd say Bolt and Plasma, mixed with some Grav. You want them to be agressive but the inferno and hand flamers, while cool looking, are too short range. Hand Flamers are 3" I think while the Inferno is 6.

[Macabre Slanneshi Prince]

Vanguard can fall back and still shoot, and the additional move I think is worth the extra points.

[Boyadventurer]

Honestly, I thought the whole gunslinger VV was just an answer to them just not being a particularly good tier CC unit (overpriced storm shields). They have better mobility, but I don't see why they'd be better over regular vets with the longer range anyway (throw one VV in the KT to keep fly of course). That said, if you're in it for the cool factor, I don't see it being a liability to take them here and there in a kill team you expect to get in combat.

[Mobius0288]

Ya so some of you may know better but I didn't originally. Dual pistols can be used by Veterans like you said but remember they can't be used as Attacks in the Fight phase. They can be shot in the shooting phase if they are in close combat, but then you're stuck with a CCW profile for attacks. Is it worth it? Idk, it depends. I agree Vanguards could probably utilize it best, but having some sort of melee weapon is important too, especially if you want to engage, retreat and fire (stalling or tying up other units?.

 

Again, lessons learned because I misinterpreted it.

 

For veterans I look at it like this: Do I want them to fire both pistols in the shooting phase, or I do I want a bolter with greater range and the same two shots at 12" or less. In close combat, I'd maybe take a single pistol with some melee weapons to take advantage of both.

 

They definitely look cool and could have usefulness with different kinds of pistols. It was cool in 7th cause I could do bolts of eryxia with a grav pistol on my Capt, in an already close range army.

[mjrwaud]

Thanks for the input everyone!

 

I must admit that it'd be mostly for looks but I wanted to read some opinions as to whether it's actually playable without being terrible. The thread on chainsword vs. bolt pistol got me thinking about it and it seemed that a vet with two pistols gets two chances to wound in the shooting phase + two chances to wound in the melee phase and that the shooting attacks could be far stronger for less points and useable in more situations than straight up melee weapons.

 

Two plasma pistols (7X2) = 14 pts.= two strong (very strong if overcharged) shooting attachs + two weak close combat attacks

Power fist / Thunder hammer + bolt pistol = 20 pts = one okay shooting attack + two very strong melee attacks

 

A sgt. or blackshield with their three attacks would tip this in favour of the melee weapon + pistol option, but I'm on the fence for normal vets... not that we're super great in close combat anyways... ;)

[Moostick]

There is very little reason to ever choose a pistol over a rifle counterpart if it's available. The reasons being that you can shoot it in melee or if you're short on points.

 

For DW, melee shooting isn't super useful. Even Gunslinging with VV is only good because of deep strike and the fact they can't take a bigger gun. Otherwise, I'd just give them a special weapon and keep the chainsword/PW.

[CrimsonReign]

when you can shoot multiple weapons per model, why take 2 pistols?

[Nurgleprobe]

when you can shoot multiple weapons per model, why take 2 pistols?

Ah I did reply to you on this subject in the other thread:

 

"Sadly no, the way shooting works is that you pick one of three options for each model:

All weapons (not counting pistols or grenades)

All pistols

One grenade (and only 1 per unit)."

[mjrwaud]

when you can shoot multiple weapons per model, why take 2 pistols?

A few reasons in my mind, 

 

- DW vets can shoot all their weapons, but as Nurgleprobe just mentioned that's only going to be their main weapons (bolter, flamer, etc.) that they can only have one of,  one guy in the squad throw a grenade, or fire pistol(s) that they could have two of. 

 

- pistols can be fired while within 1" of enemies (ie. in close combat but they don't fire during the close combat phase), thus giving two more chances to wound while within 1" (although now their close combat attacks are kinda weak).

 

- pistols can be shot from a distance but also hit as hard or harder than many close combat weapons, so they can -sort of- do two jobs at once...  

 

However, I'm not in -any- way trying to argue that they're 'good' reasons or better than some other options...this topic was mainly asking for peoples opinions or ideas about whether they could be usable in any situation on normal non-jump pack equipped veterans. I thought it'd look cool and maybe kinda be effective (if sub-optimal and pricey) to deliver kill team by corvus with the following:

 

- 1 vet sgt. with xenophase + combi-plasma (3 Attacks makes him better in melee, so sword + combi allows good shooting)

- 1 blackshield with thunder hammer + bolt pistol (3 attacks and could use a heavy hitter, so hammer + bolt pistol so cheaper) 

- 3 vets with bolt pistol / plasma pistol (quite a few shots within 12", overcharged plasma allows some good damage)

- 1 vet with frag cannon (heavy hitter / overwatch murder)

- 2 vanguard vets with bolt pistol / plasma pistol (more shots, allow fall back + shoot)

- 1 terminators with thunder hammer + storm shield (heavy hitter / bullet catcher)

 

+ drop in with them a watch captain with jump pack + xenophase + combi-plasma (to allow safer overcharged plasma shots)

[Mobius0288]

I think the only reason this idea comes up is because we special issue ammunition. It's not really something regular space marines should consider IMO. SIA would make a "gunslinger" more usable/versatile for us.