Dealing with Vehicles

[Ninjoe42]

Hey folks,

 

First time posting, just wanted to see if I could get some advice. I've played a couple of games of 8th with my (admittedly limited) selection of Grey Knights, and I've found vehicles are proving really difficult to deal with.

 

Their toughness is really high, so I generally will only be wounding on 5s in the best case scenario

 

Psycannon does only 1 damage, so it results in generally only 1 damage per turn if I'm lucky

 

Even on the charge I find anything other than hammers struggles to put a dent in them, and even hammers have some trouble just hitting in the first place, then are usually only wounding on 4's.

 

Most vehicles can pump out a massive amount of firepower as well. Recent game against Dark Eldar had me cut to ribbons after trying to get the jump on one of their transports and I only barely scratched it.

 

Any advice is appreciated, thanks all!

[Myunch]

I find that Purge Soul and Smite can do a significant amount of damage as it isn't often denied, and they're relatively easy to cast as well.

 

Personally I take Dreadknights as MC/Tank hunters with that role specifically in mind. I often take them with teleporters to get them close early. Also, Dreadnought CC and long range shooting can be effective as well, the latter of which is more likely as the Doomglaive is the only pattern that can Gate itself.

 

Also, I like the Twin Multi Melta option on our Stormraven, as I find that Turn 1 I can basically be in Melta range no matter where the tank is on the battlefield.

 

Aside from that, our infantry's best bet is Hammers and Psychic Phase, as I find Psycannons to be completely lackluster for the points, and as you pointed out they generally fail to do significant damage after moving.

 

Hope this helps!

[Captain Coolpants]

Smites are just auto wounding everything, so that's good. Yeah we wound most vehicles on a 5+, but We do d3 damage per. And a squad with hammerhand is actually wounding on a 4+.

 

A hammer is almost always wounding on a 3+ unless the vehicle is toughness 8 or more (but then hammerhand will fix that).

 

 

I've not faced any vehicle heavy lists. But I've found them no problem so far.

Don't even bother taking "heavy" guns though. As storm bolters have been doing more wounds for me lol

[Seizeman]

It seems like your problem isn't actually dealing with vehicles but being shot before being able to dealing with them. Don't use powered armor grey knights without a transport and you will be fine. Just don't disembark before you have softened the enemy or you are close enough to charge.

 

Open-topped transports are relatively easy to kill. Between psychic powers, assault cannons, bolters and melee they die easily enough.

 

In any other case where transports aren't oppen topped, just play their game. If they don't leave their transports, you don't have to do it either. Just shoot at their exposed units while you close the distance. Once you are in charge range they will be forced to either disembark before you do and get shoot/charged, or stay inside their transports and get wiped.

 

In the case of artillery (leman russes, etc), just ignore them. Really. Most heavy weaponry is not efficient enough to kill you fast, giving you enough time to deal with their other units and/or close the distance. You don't have to kill them, just charge them with your razorbacks and infantry and they become useless.

 

The only problematic vehicles are melee ones. Dreadnoughts, Knights, hive tyrants... they can destroy you in combat if you let them charge you. Luckily, most armies don't use a lot of them, so smiting, some medium calibre fire and charges from your own heavy melee units should usually do the trick. You can also use some extra firepower that works with your army. That means a stormraven. One raven packs enough firepower to kill most of those targets, provides your transport and is generally pretty good.

 

So really, you don't need need dedicated anti-amor. One stormraven, at most, is plenty for the few things you really need killed.

 

And yes, psycannons (and all special weapons) are horrible. Trust the bolter.

[Adeptus]

Venerable Dreadnoughts are goddamn boss. TL Las for up to 12 wounds in a single shot? With a TL Autocannon for another potential 8 wounds on the other arm?

 

Yes please.

[Blakklist]

A really good combo I have found with purge is the ancient, warlord trait and Coteaz. Start with Coteaz casting terrify on the vehicle which will lower their leadership. If set up right your leadership before rolling for purge with a grey knight unit should be 12 (Coteaz makes you start with 10, +1 for warlord trait, +1 for ancient). Most Vehicles are around leadership 8. Terrify drops it to 7. Use purge and best case scenario you hit them for 10 mortal wounds. Worst case you don't hit them at all with it but due to terrify they now can't overwatch so then charge and kill/tie them up in the melee phase.

 

 

BTW because of this I definitely agree with the rule of one. If all my units could cast purge in the same psychic phase then we would wipe the board turn one.

Edited July 15, 2017 by Blakklist

[Adeptus]

I mean, that's good and all but it's like a 400 point investment, you need all the pieces in the right place to make it work, and it hinges off two deniable psychic tests. I'd rather just throw TL lascannons down range. Heck, I could run two ven-dreads for the same price with a potential damage output of 40 wounds a turn.

[Blakklist]

I mean, that's good and all but it's like a 400 point investment, you need all the pieces in the right place to make it work, and it hinges off two deniable psychic tests. I'd rather just throw TL lascannons down range. Heck, I could run two ven-dreads for the same price with a potential damage output of 40 wounds a turn.

Yeah that works too. Just wondering where the 400 point investment comes from? Warlord trait is free, Coteaz is 100pts, and a brotherhood ancient is 128pts or the one I prefer Pali ancient for 140 pts.

Damage out put and benefits are all fairly relative but even so if you want to analyze its maximum potential the reality would look like this: Pali ancient is a 2+ sav with 5 wounds and gives extra attacks to those around him (and can be the one who casts purge) and a max potential of 29 wounds per turn(SB-4, falchion-15, purge-10). Coteaz is a 2+ save 5 wounds and gives immediate access to 10Ld (on top of that gives access to 3 more psychic powers) and swings his own daemon hammer for a max out put of roughly 21 wounds per turn (eagle-6, daemon hammer-12, smite-3). More wounds: 10, potential damage output: 50, psychic powers: 6, buffs: 2, and survivability: 2+ sav. So points for this to work is 240, which give you enough for one of those venerables. It's more of a set up on my end doing it this way vice sending 2 lascannons down range, true. Also, it makes the list deviate from a pure GK list. But you have better survivable units, better buff, more psychic powers and more over all attacks for roughly 48pts more then a venerable (I did this comparison based off one venerable since I don't see how you got 400pts). You can be denied on the psychic test absolutely. If that's something that is worrisome then bring 2 squads of SOS for 70pts each, which will then get those points closer to 388 for the piece of mind that you probably won't be denied. Either way both situations can work.

 

 

As far as a pure GK list goes and what do we have to deal with vehicles definitely the venerables, NDK will tie them up with out an issue, a ton of lascannons, the only specialty weapon that is feasible to help would be psilencers and that's only because they aren't draining on ur points honestly though they probably wouldn't be very effective. I find getting into melee with let's say a Pali squad loaded out with a demon hammer and falchions and having hammer hand on them can tear through vehicles pretty easily. Plus the crap ton of smites we can unload. I personally feel that there is a wide range to choose from.

 

 

It's all just a matter of personal preference I guess.

Edited July 15, 2017 by Blakklist

[Adeptus]

For some reason I was adding the cost of a Grand Master into the mix as well. Not sure why.

[Captain Coolpants]

Only 40pts off your 400 estimate. So still a lot.

It's definitely an option!

Not one I'll be taking though.

[Seizeman]

Except the Coteaz trick does not even work. The max LD you can reach anyway is 11. Coteaz's LD is not affected by the banner, so he does nothing in this case. Also Coteaz is just not good. Pick an apothecary with a hammer for the same cost and he deals a lot more wounds to vehicles.

[gitface]

The trick is not using the banner to set Coteaz's leadership to 11 is this way round

 

Ancient with banner LD 8

 

standing next to Cortez  LD > 10

 

Ancient now is effected by the banner LD > 11

 

Cortez has warlord trait to increase LD by +1

 

Ancient now has LD >12

 

I suppose the question is can you receive two plus one from different sources.

[Seizeman]

Your are doing it wrong. You don't replace your leadership with Coteaz's at any point. Ancient leadership is 11 (9+1+1), Coteaz's is 11 (9+1).  Then when casting purge soul you can use the one you prefer.

[Blakklist]

Your are doing it wrong. You don't replace your leadership with Coteaz's at any point. Ancient leadership is 11 (9+1+1), Coteaz's is 11 (9+1). Then when casting purge soul you can use the one you prefer.

Your right, I just reread Coteaz ability. The max would be 11 either way. I still like Coteaz for terrify. No over watch and dropping their leadership value by 1. Considering a GK Army is always charging it seems really valueable. Thank for pointing that out

[Valerian]

One big problem that I see with Coteaz in that scenario is that he can't teleport in with your Ancient and other Paladins, so he needs a transport, and you'd need to closely manage when and where he disembarks to pull off that combined Purge Soul tactic.