Our fliers.

[Eternal Warrior]

I am here to ask the Inner Circles wisdom on our two fliers. I've never used a flier in 20 years of war gaming but they look so cool I want to include one. Thank you all

[dtse]

Dark talon excellent if you have the points. Twin hurricane bolters within 12" is so hardcore for chaff killing especially combined with strafing run. The rift cannon is great and only source of mortal wounds we have other than smite. And it's fast. The bomb is fun but not super effective. Depends how good you are at rolling 4+.

 

Nephilim is unimpressive. It's just a bit expensive still. Other space marine flyers are better and Razorbacks are better.

 

I don't think I would spam ether of them like stormravens. Add a dark talon. Maybe two. For chaff killing purposes. But without decent anti vehicle weaponry not worth spamming.

[march10k]

 The rift cannon is great and only source of mortal wounds we have other than smite. 

 

*Cough*Sword of Secrets*cough*

[Frater Cornelius]

The Nephilim suffers from the -1 hit penalty for moving with heavy weapons. It is balanced out but Strafing Run, but still annoying. The Dark Shroud only suffers that penalty for the Rift Cannon. The Cannon can also be shot at different targets, something the 7ed iteration suffered from.

[aekold]

I have played several games with 1 dark talon in my list and I must say I am pretty impressed. It takes some finesse to use, because it can get shot down rather quickly, but the 24 bolter shots combined with strafing run make it an excellent, fast moving killing machine.

[Knight Master Eladric]

I'm so angry/disappointed in the nephilim once again. It's supposed to be our anti-flyer flyer (at least that's how I read the fluff) and it has always sucked at that. In 6th/7th S7 missiles and one Las was never enough to do consistent damage to anything but a dakkajet. And now with vehicles getting -1 to heavy weapons and the Hard to Hit rule, it's BS 5+ against other air units!!! I will say though that the mega bolter can do a damn good job tearing up a lot of different targets. When you can get him near Sammael, even better.

 

I do find that non-hover flyers are a bit of a liability, and also rather boring. Without weapon arcs or being able to leave the board, all I've done with mine is fly a loop around the board. A clever opponent can position himself to force you off the board (no space to make your min move). Then it's bye bye to your flier.

[ValourousHeart]

A clever opponent can position himself to force you off the board (no space to make your min move). Then it's bye bye to your flier.

I've heard other people say this, but I've never read about anyone pulling that off in a battle report. I'm curious if this is just hysteria, or actual personal experience.

 

The Nephilem has to move 20 to 50 inches. And it can turn up to 90 degrees, either left or right. 180 degree arc 20 to 50 inches away gives a fairly large area with which to choose. Sure it is limited by the board edges. But surely you should still have at least a little space within a 90 degree section of that arc.

 

The idea of forcing flyers off the board isn't new to 8th edition. It was something people talked about in 6th and 7th, because after all if the flyer wasn't on the board in those editions it wasn't affecting the game (since nobody liked the dog fight rules).

 

So if this is such an easy thing to do, and we have had 3 editions to figure out how to do it, then why aren't there tons of battle reports showing this happening?

 

It would seem to me that a more likely explanation is that the person with the flyer is painting themselves into a corner. And it is the player with the flyer that forced the flyer off the board with that poor board placement.

[Brother dean]

. The bomb is fun but not super effective. Depends how good you are at rolling 4+.

Disagree completely.  With a statistical average of 5 mortal wounds (against full 10 man squads or larger horde squads) it is quite effective instead of rolling 2d6 to determine number of hits, Rolling to hit, rolling again to wound.  If anything it is a little overpowered.

 

As for being forced off the board,...  Only the Nephilim can be done this way because of Hover on the Dark Talon, and the only rules for fliers are in the Death from the Skies bits which also include the Ongoing Reserves bit.  You cannot include a flier without accepting that it can come back because it is automatically a Death from the Skies game...

(until we get an FAQ or this gets cleared up some other way)

 

 

(My 2p and please point out how I am wrong about the DftS bit.  Logic says that but it feels wrong.)

Edited July 17, 2017 by Brother dean

[Knight Master Eladric]

Valorous, for moving off the board, when you lay it out like that it sounds nice, but in practice I don't find it so easy. As I read it, death from the skies is an expansion, and thus optional. I don't see an opponent wanting to use those rules, especially if they don't have a flyer themselves. So that makes 8th FAR different from 6th and 7th because you are gone as soon as you leave the board. I haven't played many games of 8th so far and it's already come up twice. The first, my opponent could have done it to me and didn't realize, and the second I had the opportunity but chose not too for a juicier target.

 

20-50 in 180° arc sounds like a lot, but between board edges, terrain, enemy units, and now planning where you'll be the following turns, your options quickly diminish. In 6th and 7th I'd line up a good two or three turn strafing run and be able to come back on anywhere on 5 or 6. In 8th the no arcs make it great but I feel it's more limiting at times.

[ValourousHeart]

Practice might just be the trick to making it easier.  I know that I struggled with guess ranges when I first started this hobby.  And when Death From The Skies came out I had to spend a night pushing my flyers around a table to wrap my head around how to turn and move the flyers to stay in formation.

 

As for not playing with the advanced rules, it is possible to run into that issue.  But I'm sure that players that want the advantages of certain advanced rules, are going to be viewed as hypocritical for not allowing their opponents to also be able to use advanced rules.

[dtse]

If you are gonna play in tournaments I wouldn't get used to using death from the skies. Just sayin.

[Knight Master Eladric]

Personally I wouldn't call Death from the Skies "advanced rules". All those sections after terrain call themselves expansions. Just because you have a bunker on the table wouldn't mean you use the stronghold assault rules.

[Frater Cornelius]

That is for the TO to decide. These things are different all the time. Better know the rules and not need them than the other way around ;)