Flesh Tearers and Primaris reinforcements

[Guest]

I jusy got done reading Ragnar Blackmane book and actually liked the Flesh Tearers and was a little saddened that they were dieing out. They seemed like the SW opposing side. Jungle enviroment that used sneaky tactics (hiding, poison, etc) to kill prey vs Fenris ice enviroment that used hardiness, brute force, and pursuit to hunt prey. Also their initiation were both brutal but in opposing ways. I felt a slight kinship with the Flesh Tearers.

 

With the Primaris initiave, has there been any confirmation they were reinforced and geneseed "cleansed" to help them grow. I realize they were under investigation but with RG and him knowing all the chapters flaws and seeking to stabilize, but not eliminate, the geneseed "flaws" I was hoping the Flesh Tearers would be around awhile longer. Maybe the captain Vorian leading a new force of Primaris.

[Guest]

Crap wrong forum. Darn my hastiness. Ill flag for mod deletion.

[Noctus Cornix]

Wait... what? Flesh Tearers using sneaky tactics?... You mean the guys who literally have a circular saw on their chapter symbol and are known for some of the most brutal, vicious close combat battles and infamous for their brutish and upfront style, not to mention their frenzied wanton destruction (though not always intentional) 

 

Are you sure we're talking about the same chapter?  

[Kelborn]

I think that he's refering to Cretacia's native flaura, which consists of dinosaurs, poisonous plants & insects and the like. All happenin in a jungle which you'd assume with sneaky predators, etc.

 

I too like the Flesh Tearers after reading A D-Bs Ragnar and I agree that it somehow mirrors Fenris as well. :)

[Arkeo Nox]

I don't think there is another chapter that use as much brute force as Flesh Tearers !

Edited July 16, 2017 by Arkeo Nox

[sockwithaticket]

I'd hate for the Flesh Tearers to change at all, let alone invite Primaris in. Alas GW have made a rod for their own backs with the fluff and every BA successor is going to be riddled with Primaris. I can't see how these new introductions will match the character of actual FTs in a way that makes sense. Noble sacrifice and absolute, sometimes indiscriminate, in your face savagery, just doesn't seem to gel with G-man's vat-grown, ranged marines.

[Guest]

I don't think there is another chapter that use as much brute force as Flesh Tearers !

 

 

Wait... what? Flesh Tearers using sneaky tactics?... You mean the guys who literally have a circular saw on their chapter symbol and are known for some of the most brutal, vicious close combat battles and infamous for their brutish and upfront style, not to mention their frenzied wanton destruction (though not always intentional) 

 

Are you sure we're talking about the same chapter?  

 

 

I was talking about the flora and fauna not the Flesh Tearers for being sneaky. Basically...

 

Cretacia: A Jungle full of poisonous, venomous, and sneaky/ambush plants and animals with some super predators such as Pterordron (spelling) and carnosaur. The Flora and Fauna are so devastating they can kill Power Armored Space Marines. The human possibly used DAoT tech to change their bodies to adapt to their enviroment. They have since devolved into tribal state with immense strength and reflexes to survive upon the planet.

 

Fenris: A Ice and Water planet full of brutal and hardy animals that track and hunt their prey. There is some super predators such as the Kraken and Drakes (dragons, pretty much like Pterordons). The Flora and Fauna are so brutal they can kill Power Armored Space Marines. The humans possibly used DAoT tech to change their bodies to adapt to their enviroment. They have since devovled into a tribal state with immense strength and hardiness to survive upon the planet.

 

Short description, but it gets the points across.

 

 

Flesh Tearers are toe to toe combatants, like the SW's.

Edited July 16, 2017 by Caldersson

[Demoulius]

 

The humans possibly used DAoT tech to change their bodies to adapt to their enviroment.

wait what?

[Guest]

 

 

The humans possibly used DAoT tech to change their bodies to adapt to their enviroment.

 

wait what? :huh:

Its been hinted that several of the rediscoveref inhabited death worlds tribes had, during the DAoT, genetically modified to live on their deathworld as it is not habitable by normal humans. A terran couldnt survive on fenris or cretarion. Even Space Marines have a hard time surviving yet there are humans that do survive and make tribes.

[roodie]

I'd hate for the Flesh Tearers to change at all, let alone invite Primaris in. Alas GW have made a rod for their own backs with the fluff and every BA successor is going to be riddled with Primaris. I can't see how these new introductions will match the character of actual FTs in a way that makes sense. Noble sacrifice and absolute, sometimes indiscriminate, in your face savagery, just doesn't seem to gel with G-man's vat-grown, ranged marines.

 

Flesh Tearers will get primaris reinforcements, I am sure of it. My preferred way to do it is - the chapter gets the new brothers, who just watch as the old cadre succumbs to the rage one by one. Make death company troops, give the new primarines a chainsaw bayonet attachment (or an option to have bolters AND chainswords, like grey hunters), problems fixed , at least for me. 

[Arkangilos]

I'd hate for the Flesh Tearers to change at all, let alone invite Primaris in. Alas GW have made a rod for their own backs with the fluff and every BA successor is going to be riddled with Primaris. I can't see how these new introductions will match the character of actual FTs in a way that makes sense. Noble sacrifice and absolute, sometimes indiscriminate, in your face savagery, just doesn't seem to gel with G-man's vat-grown, ranged marines.

They aren't vat grown, dude. It's been made abundantly clear that they went through the selection process like everyone back then. They were then placed in stasis over the years while the tech was being developed.

 

Also, while I haven't read the more recent things with flesh tearers, I would hardly call them noble.

 

And I also don't see why they wouldn't take on Primaris marines. Seth only accepted their doom because he didn't know there was something out there that could save them.

 

We also don't know whether Primaris will not come with CC specialists when our codex comes out.

[Kelborn]

 

I don't think there is another chapter that use as much brute force as Flesh Tearers !

 

 

Wait... what? Flesh Tearers using sneaky tactics?... You mean the guys who literally have a circular saw on their chapter symbol and are known for some of the most brutal, vicious close combat battles and infamous for their brutish and upfront style, not to mention their frenzied wanton destruction (though not always intentional) 

 

Are you sure we're talking about the same chapter?  

 

 

I was talking about the flora and fauna not the Flesh Tearers for being sneaky. Basically...

 

Cretacia: A Jungle full of poisonous, venomous, and sneaky/ambush plants and animals with some super predators such as Pterordron (spelling) and carnosaur. The Flora and Fauna are so devastating they can kill Power Armored Space Marines. The human possibly used DAoT tech to change their bodies to adapt to their enviroment. They have since devolved into tribal state with immense strength and reflexes to survive upon the planet.

 

Fenris: A Ice and Water planet full of brutal and hardy animals that track and hunt their prey. There is some super predators such as the Kraken and Drakes (dragons, pretty much like Pterordons). The Flora and Fauna are so brutal they can kill Power Armored Space Marines. The humans possibly used DAoT tech to change their bodies to adapt to their enviroment. They have since devovled into a tribal state with immense strength and hardiness to survive upon the planet.

 

Short description, but it gets the points across.

 

 

Flesh Tearers are toe to toe combatants, like the SW's.

 

 

AND both have a dark secret, which is not known throughout the Imperium...well...that was the case before Warzone Fenris and so on. ^^

[Sun Reaver]

To answer the original question, there isn't any evidence that the Flesh Tearers have specifically accepted them.

 

However, after the Devestation of Baal, I would assume almost all BA successors would accept the Primaris, especially Seth. I think they'd jump at the chance to reinforce their ranks.

 

They don't want their chapter to die out - no space marine does. I can even see Seth upgrading to Primaris status so he can continue to lead his chapter down the righteous path that he promised to Dante. 

Edited July 17, 2017 by Sun Reaver

[sockwithaticket]

 

I'd hate for the Flesh Tearers to change at all, let alone invite Primaris in. Alas GW have made a rod for their own backs with the fluff and every BA successor is going to be riddled with Primaris. I can't see how these new introductions will match the character of actual FTs in a way that makes sense. Noble sacrifice and absolute, sometimes indiscriminate, in your face savagery, just doesn't seem to gel with G-man's vat-grown, ranged marines.

They aren't vat grown, dude. It's been made abundantly clear that they went through the selection process like everyone back then. They were then placed in stasis over the years while the tech was being developed.

 

Also, while I haven't read the more recent things with flesh tearers, I would hardly call them noble.

 

And I also don't see why they wouldn't take on Primaris marines. Seth only accepted their doom because he didn't know there was something out there that could save them.

 

We also don't know whether Primaris will not come with CC specialists when our codex comes out.

 

Oh I know, I know, but it's much  more fun to type. I forget sometimes, that facetious doesn't come off well on the web.

 

Ah you see, I have always thought there's a certain nobility to accepting their fate and continuing to got to bat for the Imperium despite ever-increasing Isolation from it and being but a hair's breadth away from excommunication like estranged brothers the Knights of Blood (whom I also consider noble for fighting to protect the Imperium despite being cast aside by it). Despite their often wanton savagery, they do fight for humanity. Then there's Seth's own drive to redeem his chapter (and I'm guessing others feel similarly to him), I tink that's a noble pursuit.

 

I'm sure they will take on Primaris, not least because of the losses they'll have sustained  in the aftermath of defending Baal, but it saddens me a little. For all that the chapter's current path and character might condemn them, it makes them so interesting. Even if the Primaris have a dedicated combat unit and some of the Primaris marines are from Sanguinius' lineage, they won't be the same as the Flesh Tearers we currently know. All of the main BA successors have something that sets them apart from the parent chapter, even if it's something small like the Angels Sanguine never showing their faces. For so long the Flesh Tearers have been characterised by their near-bezerker levels of violence, they are the darkest side of the gene-seed and they've taken a long time to get there. Even if they sustained no losses on Baal the FTs were at about 400 members from the last bit of fluff I read, so if the Primaris were used to build them back to full-chapter strength they'd be a slight majority. They'll almost certainly be the overwhelming majority now, but what does that mean for the character of the Chapter when it's comprised of so many outsiders? It might save them, but what sets them apart from a pretty ordinary successor like the Angels Vermillion then? Will the Primaris be joining the remaining old-timers in post-battle blood rituals like the codex describes*?

 

What can I say?  It's like bands, the first album you listen to is generally the one you hold in your head as their 'true' sound. The FTs were first introduced to me as damned and psychotically violent, so that's how I like them.

 

 

* Tangential point, would Primaris reinforcing the Blood Drinkers join in with their rituals? Will the Angels Sanguine remove their helmets in the presence of Primaris brethren?

[Sun Reaver]

 

 

I'd hate for the Flesh Tearers to change at all, let alone invite Primaris in. Alas GW have made a rod for their own backs with the fluff and every BA successor is going to be riddled with Primaris. I can't see how these new introductions will match the character of actual FTs in a way that makes sense. Noble sacrifice and absolute, sometimes indiscriminate, in your face savagery, just doesn't seem to gel with G-man's vat-grown, ranged marines.

They aren't vat grown, dude. It's been made abundantly clear that they went through the selection process like everyone back then. They were then placed in stasis over the years while the tech was being developed.

 

Also, while I haven't read the more recent things with flesh tearers, I would hardly call them noble.

 

And I also don't see why they wouldn't take on Primaris marines. Seth only accepted their doom because he didn't know there was something out there that could save them.

 

We also don't know whether Primaris will not come with CC specialists when our codex comes out.

 

Oh I know, I know, but it's much  more fun to type. I forget sometimes, that facetious doesn't come off well on the web.

 

Ah you see, I have always thought there's a certain nobility to accepting their fate and continuing to got to bat for the Imperium despite ever-increasing Isolation from it and being but a hair's breadth away from excommunication like estranged brothers the Knights of Blood (whom I also consider noble for fighting to protect the Imperium despite being cast aside by it). Despite their often wanton savagery, they do fight for humanity. Then there's Seth's own drive to redeem his chapter (and I'm guessing others feel similarly to him), I tink that's a noble pursuit.

 

I'm sure they will take on Primaris, not least because of the losses they'll have sustained  in the aftermath of defending Baal, but it saddens me a little. For all that the chapter's current path and character might condemn them, it makes them so interesting. Even if the Primaris have a dedicated combat unit and some of the Primaris marines are from Sanguinius' lineage, they won't be the same as the Flesh Tearers we currently know. All of the main BA successors have something that sets them apart from the parent chapter, even if it's something small like the Angels Sanguine never showing their faces. For so long the Flesh Tearers have been characterised by their near-bezerker levels of violence, they are the darkest side of the gene-seed and they've taken a long time to get there. Even if they sustained no losses on Baal the FTs were at about 400 members from the last bit of fluff I read, so if the Primaris were used to build them back to full-chapter strength they'd be a slight majority. They'll almost certainly be the overwhelming majority now, but what does that mean for the character of the Chapter when it's comprised of so many outsiders? It might save them, but what sets them apart from a pretty ordinary successor like the Angels Vermillion then? Will the Primaris be joining the remaining old-timers in post-battle blood rituals like the codex describes*?

 

What can I say?  It's like bands, the first album you listen to is generally the one you hold in your head as their 'true' sound. The FTs were first introduced to me as damned and psychotically violent, so that's how I like them.

 

 

* Tangential point, would Primaris reinforcing the Blood Drinkers join in with their rituals? Will the Angels Sanguine remove their helmets in the presence of Primaris brethren?

 

 

Great points all around. I never really thought of it like that. I suppose the easy answer is that the Primaris Marines will adopt the cultures and habits of the chapter they are assigned to. But then again, things are never that easy. 

 

Well, unless you write fluff for GW. Then it could very well be. 

[Arkangilos]

We don't know how many of them will be outsiders. In fact, most of the outsiders could have died, or were assigned to someone else. We also know that they can now make their own Primaris, so there is nothing saying that all of your Primaris aren't native born.

[sockwithaticket]

We don't know how many of them will be outsiders. In fact, most of the outsiders could have died, or were assigned to someone else. We also know that they can now make their own Primaris, so there is nothing saying that all of your Primaris aren't native born.

The point at which you'd have thought they'd be immediately bolstered would be when Guilliman and his crusade come along to mop up the last of the Tyranids at Baal, those would be outsiders, surely? They'd be from the original cadre tended by Cawl, certainly not recruits from Cretacia.

[Arkangilos]

Sure, but we don't know how many he had for them, how long they lasted, and how willing or unwilling they were in accepting their culture.

 

We also don't know how close to the current timeline that happened. It could have been in the first few years (in which case we are now 100 years later) to the end. So plenty of time.

Edited July 17, 2017 by Arkangilos

[Aothaine]

I think the Flesh Tearers would be very thankful for the reinforcements. Also I wonder if all new marines are going to be created with the newer geneseed. How the primaris will view their seniors with the old geneseed. I wonder if it will be a mix of awe and pity. Awe at their ability to persevere through all the trials that older geneseed brings with it and and pity for the same reason and watching their new brothers succumb to the black rage.

 

I can imagine more than a few of the primaris actually wanting to help their brothers even more. Possibly going to great lengths to protect them and ensure they have a good death. I imagine squads of primaris clearing chaff at range to the sides of their death company brothers and letting their brothers charge in and sate their thirst while the primaris clean up the left overs and possibly even pointing them in area that won't cause as much collateral damage.

[Demoulius]

Honestly, this is why I dislike the lore about the 'new' marines so much. Lets assume for abit that they are all indeed native born Baalites, (and even thats a stretch of the inmagination...but sure) even then how would people accept then when they suddenly show up 10k years later?

 

The Blood of Sanguinius wasent as dilluted back then it is should be in the 40k universe and alot of what makes the succesor chapter unique sterms from their acceptance or resistance from their own nature. They would alos be missing out on the customs and culture of your chapter so theyre more akin to a stranger then a brother. The mysterious individuals show up and while they share your chapters lineage they miss every thing that makes them a Blood Angel (in your eyes) and youre just supposed to accept them?

 

If they are native baalites then they share your encestral birthplace (if a blood angel, not if youre a succesor) but everything recent history will be lost on them. They will have training in some archaic way of fighting and thats it. They wont know what the red thirst or the black rage is to the degree that 'normal' marines do. They would be new to our chapter's love of flight and the many tactics that are build around it etc etc etc.

 

Its like adding a rookie with superior gear to a seasoned unit and expecting him to fit right in without issues, culture shock or grudges to be born....

[Blindhamster]

Well, the home world is usually deemed less important than the gene seed in terms of what makes them brothers. And it's why the sons of sanguinius share a close bond even now, 10k years after being separated.

[Demoulius]

Homeworld, culture, tradition are some of the few things that differentiate chapters from eachothers and are a pretty big part of their self image. I think if some marines were added who lacked everything of that, and who just shared a blood tie they would be vieuwed as outsiders (at best)

 

And this might not be a big issue for the blood angels but for the flesh tearers for example I inmagine it would be a pretty big deal.

 

Its like you find out after 30 years that you have a brother/sister you never heard or knew about who suddenly moves in with you and expects to be treated like the rest of your closest family members

[Arkangilos]

Has no one been in an organization that brings in new people?

 

If they are unaware of your customes and traditions, you teach them. You then do the induction ceremony, which in itself puts them in line.

[Sun Reaver]

I can see them getting the new batch of Primaris Marines and saying, 

 

"Cool, you're here. Now go kill a giant dinosaur and survive for a month out in the jungle. Oh and observe the local populace. By the way, everything will try to kill you. If you survive, you're in!" 

[roodie]

...or Guilliman could simply delegate the task of distributing the newbros to Dante and Meshiston.

 

"My Lord Commander, this one is definitely a psychotic nutjob."

"Okay, send him to Seth then, Mephi. Next!"