BL older book lore conflicting with new booke lore

[Guest]

What one is canon between a older book lore and newer book lore?

 

I've been reading the Primarch series and found some conflicting lore with older books and codex's. The primarch books are newer and I would suspect to be the new standard as they cant retcon entire books for a single small lore conflict.

 

I realize thay there is the saying "Everything is canon, but not all of it is true." but that leads to several arguments on how to proceed with new lore coming.

[Brother Captain Kezef]

Do you have examples?

[Guest]

Ragnar Blackmane states he killed a blackmane wolf during his trial of morkai, skinned it and wears it upon his righr shoulder.

 

Leman Russ novel states during the test of morkai initiates become a wolf like thing and lose enough of their humanity that skining a wolf and keeping it wouldnt be possible.

[Apothecary Vaddon]

Many authors have touched on this here and in blogs, but I think generally...in many cases, pieces aren't written with 'this is the new canon' or 'this is what really happened from here on out'. There's no real canon hierarchy that decides things of such magnitude. 

That doesn't mean that it's all true and false at the same time, necessarily. Let's say older piece of lore from a codex says...that Leman Russ always shaved his face. But his Primarch book has a scene where he does, in fact shave. That alone doesn't really invalidate all of the older codex, just that maybe Leman didn't have a blanket ban on shaving.

Obviously, that's a pretty harmless example. Events and their substance themselves can be overridden entirely. IIRC the Horus Heresy, back in the RT/1st Ed days was nowhere near as long as it has been said now. But it takes around 7 years in current lore. Clearly, in this case, your common sense and good judgement can be used to figure out what is 'canon' or 'most true' to you.

 

Ragnar Blackmane states he killed a blackmane wolf during his trial of morkai, skinned it and wears it upon his righr shoulder.

Leman Russ novel states during the test of morkai initiates become a wolf like thing and lose enough of their humanity that skining a wolf and keeping it wouldnt be possible.

Eh ... remember that it's been 10k years since Russ was around. 

OOC, I think the main problem is the Bill King SW series were written during a time where none of this stuff was really fleshed out.

 

But the fact that there have been so many millennia that have gone by since Russ was around could explain such a discrepancy. Could be that the Trials or Tests of Morkai no longer mean the same thing they meant to Russ. 

Edited July 16, 2017 by Apothecary Vaddon

[Kelborn]

What Apothecary Vaddon said.

 

Everything (even geneseed and rituals) could evolve in 10K years. If you fail the test of morkai, you succomb to the curse like Ragnars best friend did.

 

If you'd ask me, I'd stick with Bills version. Have to reread Inferno and see how FW did cover it.

[Guest]

Many authors have touched on this here and in blogs, but I think generally...in many cases, pieces aren't written with 'this is the new canon' or 'this is what really happened from here on out'. There's no real canon hierarchy that decides things of such magnitude. 

That doesn't mean that it's all true and false at the same time, necessarily. Let's say older piece of lore from a codex says...that Leman Russ always shaved his face. But his Primarch book has a scene where he does, in fact shave. That alone doesn't really invalidate all of the older codex, just that maybe Leman didn't have a blanket ban on shaving.

Obviously, that's a pretty harmless example. Events and their substance themselves can be overridden entirely. IIRC the Horus Heresy, back in the RT/1st Ed days was nowhere near as long as it has been said now. But it takes around 7 years in current lore. Clearly, in this case, your common sense and good judgement can be used to figure out what is 'canon' or 'most true' to you.

 

Ragnar Blackmane states he killed a blackmane wolf during his trial of morkai, skinned it and wears it upon his righr shoulder.

 

Leman Russ novel states during the test of morkai initiates become a wolf like thing and lose enough of their humanity that skining a wolf and keeping it wouldnt be possible.

Eh ... remember that it's been 10k years since Russ was around. 

OOC, I think the main problem is the Bill King SW series were written during a time where none of this stuff was really fleshed out.

 

But the fact that there have been so many millennia that have gone by since Russ was around could explain such a discrepancy. Could be that the Trials or Tests of Morkai no longer mean the same thing they meant to Russ. 

 

Ragnar Blackmane is written by ADB.

 

Leman Russ is writted by Chris Wraight.

 

I think Bill (william?) King wrote the omnibus.

[Apothecary Vaddon]

 

Many authors have touched on this here and in blogs, but I think generally...in many cases, pieces aren't written with 'this is the new canon' or 'this is what really happened from here on out'. There's no real canon hierarchy that decides things of such magnitude. 

That doesn't mean that it's all true and false at the same time, necessarily. Let's say older piece of lore from a codex says...that Leman Russ always shaved his face. But his Primarch book has a scene where he does, in fact shave. That alone doesn't really invalidate all of the older codex, just that maybe Leman didn't have a blanket ban on shaving.

Obviously, that's a pretty harmless example. Events and their substance themselves can be overridden entirely. IIRC the Horus Heresy, back in the RT/1st Ed days was nowhere near as long as it has been said now. But it takes around 7 years in current lore. Clearly, in this case, your common sense and good judgement can be used to figure out what is 'canon' or 'most true' to you.

 

Ragnar Blackmane states he killed a blackmane wolf during his trial of morkai, skinned it and wears it upon his righr shoulder.

 

Leman Russ novel states during the test of morkai initiates become a wolf like thing and lose enough of their humanity that skining a wolf and keeping it wouldnt be possible.

Eh ... remember that it's been 10k years since Russ was around. 

OOC, I think the main problem is the Bill King SW series were written during a time where none of this stuff was really fleshed out.

 

But the fact that there have been so many millennia that have gone by since Russ was around could explain such a discrepancy. Could be that the Trials or Tests of Morkai no longer mean the same thing they meant to Russ. 

 

Ragnar Blackmane is written by ADB.

 

Leman Russ is writted by Chris Wraight.

 

I think Bill (william?) King wrote the omnibus.

 

Sorry, you mean to say the novel Ragnar Blackmane states that about Russ himself? If so, then that still falls into the second bucket. It's been 10k years, the odds of them getting what Russ did during his time spot on is pretty low. Legends are muddied and created in their entirety over lesser time spans. Heck - in the Macharian Crusade books, the Fist of Demetrius is thought to have been owned by Russ, but when the SW actually get it, they realize it was simply owned by one of the battle brothers serving during the GC/HH. 

Edited July 16, 2017 by Apothecary Vaddon