Movement, terrain, and charges: some details

[Feral_80]

Greetings,

 

I am unable to understand exactly what is the correct thing to do in the following situations, rules-wise:

 

1) Infantry unit entirely deployed on the 1st (or upper) floor of a ruin. Gets charged by enemy infantry, but there is no physical space to place any of the attacker's models on the 1st floor. The enemy can only reach the ground floor directly under the 1st floor. The 6" vertical allowance only seems to apply to unit coherency, not to the 1" engagement distance. What to do?

• A) enemy cannot engage any model within 1", thus charge fails. Seems silly.
• B ) you measure from the uppermost part of the attackers's model to the defender's base, and if that is within 1", the charge succeeds. Also seems silly, since distances are measured base to base.
• C) if the charge distance would be enough to allow the attackers to climb up to the 1st floor, the charge succeeds even if they cannot end their move within 1" of the defender. You fight as if it was a normal charge, and hopefully consolidate 3" to the first floor as soon as possible. Seems reasonable, but I do not like the idea of stretching the rules. 
• D) Other.

See example of defender's unit here, and imagine that the scout on the lower floor is an attacker:

 

 

 

2) As above, but imagine the defender is completely occupying the whole top of an Imperial Bastion that you are using as a ruin, rather than as a fortification.

 

 

3) As above in case 1) or even 2), but the attacker is a non-infantry big model-unit that does not [fly]. Since it cannot access any upper floor, you proceed:

• A) As above
• B ) As above. Seems far less silly, since you cannot reasonably be out of reach of an Imperial Knight if you stand in front of its head. But again, I cannot find any clear statement in the rules.
• C) Other.

Example: in the pic below, the Skitarius is obviously out of reach of the Knight and cannot be charged. But what if the little guy stood on the 2nd floor? What if on the 1st floor? I'd allow a charge in both cases, but again without rules support this seems to fall into house-rules.

 

http://pro.bols.netdna-cdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/08/IMAG2081_1-e1440738222535.jpg

Edited July 16, 2017 by Feral_80

[LucidNinja]

Quick reply but don't have book handy, I'm pretty sure it says somewhere that infantry CA be assumed to be clinging to the outside walls etc to still be on the same level so 1 and 2 are C, 3 is the odd one and for now as far as RAW go A is the answer... I'm happy to play within 1 inch of the model in the case of 3, I like the idea of being able to hide from a giant robot that can't get into a building.

[Eddie Orlock]

I developed a response for substantially the same issues here. Go read my comments in that thread.

 

It is hard to write a rules set that both doesn't need a game master and stamps out all the rules silliness.

 

Given that I've seen this question twice now, I may start pulling together an interpretation article to stuff into the store-room. If I do so, I may re-use your images from this thread.

[Feral_80]

Fine to me. But at this point I think we should ask GW.

 

It is rather odd that apparently they left out such rather normal situations from the rules.

[Eddie Orlock]

I've recently reviewed some material pertinent to this discussion.

1) Infantry unit entirely deployed on the 1st (or upper) floor of a ruin. Gets charged by enemy infantry, but there is no physical space to place any of the attacker's models on the 1st floor. The enemy can only reach the ground floor directly under the 1st floor. The 6" vertical allowance only seems to apply to unit coherency, not to the 1" engagement distance. What to do?

• D) Other.

Per the Migration Document: Stepping into a New Edition of Warhammer 40000 we are advised:

Q. What happens when an Infantry model cannot completely end its move on a floor of ruins when attempting to scale the walls?

 

A. If an Infantry model is unable to complete a move to a stable position, use the Wobbly Model Syndrome guidelines in the core rules to identify with your opponent where your model’s actual location is.

This would be a powerful support to my earlier assertion of a liberal reading of WMS to cling your chargers to the outsides of the ruins.