BA "Chapter Tactics" Speculation

[Panzer]

do space marines need to be battle forged to get ATSKNF?

No, but do you really think BA would get something else instead? That's not a Chapter specific thing.

Edited August 2, 2017 by sfPanzer

[Arkangilos]

I think we will get something on top of that that always applies to the applicable BA units, yes.

 

Just like I think DG will get Universal Disgustingly Resilient regardless on if they are battleforged or not. Just like I think that the TS will get a Universal rule for them as well, regardless on if they are battle forged.

 

I am willing to admit I could be wrong, but this is just what I see happening.

 

And you are right, it's not a chapter specific thing. It's a faction specific thing. Chapter tactics are chapter specific, so it makes sense your whole army has to be the same.

 

But the BA are a whole codex unto themselves. They are their own faction.

 

If they would have been treated the same, them, like the DG and TS would not have their own codex.

Edited August 2, 2017 by Arkangilos

[LutherMax]

I just got my head around the Raven Guard Strategem, and man am I jealous! They can use a Command Point to set up ANY Infantry unit 9" away from the enemy. That unit can then move, shoot and charge as normal.

 

And because this happens before the battle, and not in a phase, they can spend multiple Command Points to do this with multiple units.

 

How about that for setting up a turn 1 assault?

 

 

Obviously better if you get first turn, but because you always know whether or not you will (seizing aside), you can choose whether or not to do it based on that knowledge on the day.

[Panzer]

Huh...I missed the part that they can move etc. as normal. That means they could bring Inferno Pistols and Flamer in range turn 1. That would be awesome as heck for us. o_O

[LutherMax]

Furthermore, they have a Warlord Trait whereby enemy units can't fire Overwatch at your Warlord.

 

Imagine that on Dante and then charging Sanguinary Guard in after him..!

Edited August 2, 2017 by LutherMax

[LutherMax]

Further furthermore, they have a Relic Jump Pack which allows the bearer to advance and charge AND re-roll charges...

[bc99]

Wow I'm surprised Raven Guard got such a cool, assault oriented group of stratagems. It seems like the Raven Guard are focused on getting their units into assault. Maybe we'll get something that buffs us once we are in assault.

[ixzion]

Wow raven guard are much stronger than I had expected! If we can get their stratagems and relic, and some cool chapter trait (probably +1 strength on the charge, though quite lame) then I believe BA would be pretty strong!

[Jorre]

While id hate to see +1 str on the charge be our trait I played a game with 20 assault marines the other day. At one stage I assaulted some tyranid gun monster thing that had tough 8..... i really really missed that extra strength!

[Xenith]

While id hate to see +1 str on the charge be our trait I played a game with 20 assault marines the other day. At one stage I assaulted some tyranid gun monster thing that had tough 8..... i really really missed that extra strength!

 

Did you have a priest?

 

From what we've seen so far, chapter tactics aren't (and hopefully won't be) something that can be replicated by a 100pt model.

[Jorre]

No I didn't have a priest is was only a 50 pl game.... one probably would have been pretty useful tho

[Karhedron]

At this point, I would put money down on us being the counterpart to Emperor's Children, getting some form of always-strike first tactic.

 

I would guess something close to World Eaters, but to be honest, they will prob give that to Space Wolves. By process of elimination, if any (mainstream) Loyalist Chapter were to get a strike-first ability, it'd be us.

Actually my money would be on Space Wolves getting something similar to EC. They have long had the "Counter-charge" special rule. In 8th I can see that working simply and neatly as any unit that gets charged also counts as charging themselves. This is not quite the same as a magic first-strike but is similar and will work to blunt multiple enemy assaults.

 

That would leave BAs with something more choppy and bloodthirsty-ish. We will have to wait and see I guess.

[Charlo]

It pains me but if we're messed up again and by some Disaster 30k BA don't work out... Well maybe I'll have secretly been an agent of the Rock this whole time 

 

Nah I kid.

 

Red is too cool.

 

Advance and Charge seems on the cards now renegades can have it. Let's hope!

[Blindhamster]

advance and charge does feel very suitable for us, it fits the up close nature of a lot of our weapons and also our tendency to want to get "stuck in"

[Silverson]

Hehe I have been talking about advance and charge with the people I play with and they don't seem to like blood angels getting it.

 

I play a heavy (almost full) jump pack list and moving 12 advancing d6 and charging 2d6 (death company getting re-rolls from lemartes) is aperantly OP in their eyes. (Their marine armies are ultramarines and space wolves respectively)

 

I'd love it to be that tho so they can feel the wrath of blood angels on top.

[The Unseen]

Getting to combat faster is all well and good, but killing stuff when you get there is kind of the point. I would much rather get something that actually lets BA do more in assault than our cousins. Advancing and still getting to charge is good, but it's effects can be somewhat replicated with good deployment and movement, and you still lose your pre-combat shooting, which in this edition hurts a fair bit. And if your fighting a true assault army, your just jumping in faster to die currently.

 

 

In related news, the point changes in the marine dex give me hope that GW will fix some of the more egregious issues some BA stuff has for points. Like 9 point angelus bolters (1 point less than a heavy bolter, which is laughable), 20 pt inferno pistols (now more expensive than a thunder hammer), and CC-only dreads costing 200+ points. (Now that ironclads are around 130, and they're better than any of our dreads, I imagine they'll see a hefty price drop.)

[Eire]

I know it'd be painful, and costly, but I would love to see the rolls (back from what we had) for the units that succumb to the Black Rage and gain DC models in the process. I miss that :)

 

It's hard to foresee what they intend with Blood Angels, to be honest, especially with the neat adds that other armies are getting currently. With what we've seen so far, I'd lean towards +1A or +1S on the charge for those models with 'Black Rage' or an adjustment to FNP for those with 'Black Rage' to 5+ like Mephiston is currently.  Wish list though, I would love an advance and charge change for us, especially those with keyword 'Fly' (jump packs) or some sort of Descent of Angels revamp where we can roll and get an extra advance on the drop from reserves. I don't know how I feel about a "Furious Charge" across the board for all Blood Angels/Flesh Tearers getting +1A or +1S on the charge because it feels a little "too" much... but keeping it for those units with key word 'Black Rage' makes more sense to me.

 

And I know with the Detachments we can take Outriders, Vanguards, etc... to get away from the Troop tax, but I would like to see something where Assault Marines are considered Troops for us again, to get those CP back that others can take for a cheap tax. Plus, I think it looks amazing. :)

 

Great thread though, good ideas throughout!

[Blindhamster]

why would +1 A on the charge be "too much" when that is exactly what all world eater units get?

[Panzer]

Especially when Berserker attack twice so it's basically +2A for them. And then the Khorne CSM Stratagem allows a Khorne Infantry or bike unit to attack an additional time as well so Berserker could attack three times even. xD

 

So far none of the ideas would've been too much considering what we've seen so far. +1 Attack, improved AP, +1S, advance&charge are all very likely imo.

[Eire]

why would +1 A on the charge be "too much" when that is exactly what all world eater units get?

Sorry meant to say +1A and +1S for every unit on the charge. My bad. Not enough coffee this morning.

 

Ohhh, an improved AP would be nice to add in there.

[Charlo]

Hehe I have been talking about advance and charge with the people I play with and they don't seem to like blood angels getting it.

 

I play a heavy (almost full) jump pack list and moving 12 advancing d6 and charging 2d6 (death company getting re-rolls from lemartes) is aperantly OP in their eyes. (Their marine armies are ultramarines and space wolves respectively)

 

I'd love it to be that tho so they can feel the wrath of blood angels on top.

 

Chaos Renegades can do the same with Raptors and Warp Talons, so they should worry more about those first :D

[appiah4]

 

My guess:

 

Curse of Sanguinius: Your units are inferior to Space Marines in everything. Deal with it. (Except Primaris marines. Please buy moar.)

Really dude? It was relatively positive speculation until you showed up with absolutely nothing constructive. Thanks man.

 

@the battleforged thing:

I personally don't think our army will have to be battleforged for our genetic quirk. But I could be wrong.

 

 

Well, is it really my fault that BA army wide rules have basically been "Your units are inferior to Space Marines in everything.  Deal with it."?

 

Our decurion rule was basically the same thing as our army wide fluff rule.

 

And I'm not being constructive?  I mean come on.  AS IF all the wishlisting in this thread is constructive.  What exactly does this thread construct?  It's a speculation thread and in essence it's absolutely useless, I just injected a little humor into a thread that basically has no purpose to begin with.

 

And people think I'm bitter.

[Arkangilos]

You are bitter, and it's posts like that that show it. You came in and bitched and whined. If you weren't normally like that with nearly all of your posts I would have thought it was humor, but your history kinda says otherwise.

[Karhedron]

Personally I feel that the +1A thing should just be for units that succumb to the Black Rage. I would like to see our Chapter Trait represent something different, speed and control rather than naked aggression.

[Charlo]

World Eaters got +1A on the charge, icons all over the place to re-roll charges, fighting multiple times in one fight phase etc

 

Hopefully, as always, we'll be a nice middle ground between them and Emperor's Children.