BA "Chapter Tactics" Speculation

[Aothaine]

Could be something like this: 

 

Descent of Angels: When a Blood Angels infantry, bike or dreadnought assaults they roll a die for each model that successfully charged their target. On a 6+/5+/4+ (infantry/bike/dreadnought) they cause a mortal wound.

[Indefragable]

... if there was a bonus to our flyer s .....

 

 

Fixed that for you. Edited July 17, 2017 by Indefragable

[Quixus]

I hope it isn't more bubbles.

What's wrong with bubbles?

 

Ideas; I'm by no means saying we should have all of these but some combination of a few:

Hidden Content

A)

Encarmine Fury (like in HH): To Wound in melee requires 1 less. Basically, if you need 4's To Wound, you now can wound on 3's, etc... so that means ANY BA unit is wounding ANY enemy unit on no worse than 5's. Combine that with the Sang Priest bubble, and we are now simply, effectively, beautifully one of the deadliest choppy armies in the whole game.

----this makes a ton of senses since it's been "proven" in HH/30k already and it's a real competitive edge that is not game breaking

----DA, SW, GK and so many other power armor units have more weapons that are +1S or so forth than we do. They also tend to have banners or more plentiful buffers that give +1A (s.g. see DA banners). This would make sense why we don't get either of those as much

----Mephiston is wounding pretty much eveything in the game on 2's

----this makes the Sanguinary Ancient exponentially better, which is saying a lot based on how useful he already is

 

B )

Add 3" to Charge ranges. Jump Pack units add 6".

 

C)

Any BA model may move 3" in the Movement phase. This is separate and may be in addition to other Moves or Advancing. For example, an unit arriving from Reserves may still move 3" even though this is normally not allowed. (this could be really powerful since it would effect vehicles, dreads, everything. And it effects all other phases...what's better a re-rollable charge or an extra guaranteeed 3" closer to the enemy?

 

D)

Enemy units are -1 To Hit when targeting any BA unit with the Fly keyword (also compensates us for only having one Flyer. Note this would mean Jump units are harder to shoot AND stab. Hmmmm....)

 

E)

Enemy units must re-roll all successful To Hit rolls made against BA units in the same game Round the BA unit arrived from Reserves (Deep Strike).

 

F)

BA units always fight first in the Fight subphase unless an enemy unit has a similar rule (ouch!).

 

G)

If an enemy unit Falls Back, the BA unit which was locked in combat with that enemy unit may immediately Charge even though it is the other player's turn (would have to find a way to word it appropriately).

 

H)

BA vehicles may Advance and shoot in the same turn even though this is normally not possible. In addition, BA vehicles with the Fly keyword may pivot twice in the same Turn even though this is normally not possible.

 

H)

Rather then firing overwatch, any BA unit may counter-charge the enemy. Roll for Charge like normal even though it is not your turn

 

I)

If an enemy unit was hit by 2 or more BA units in the Shooting phase, then all friendly BA units may re-roll Charge rolls against that unit (this gives the idea of Tactical squads suppressing the enemy).

 

J)

BA units that fail a Morale test may immediately Shoot as if it were the Shooting phase or attack as if it were the start of the Fight phase again.

 

K)

Any BA unit that is within 6" of an enemy unit that failed a Morale test may immediately Shoot as if it were the Shooting phase. If a BA unit is locked in combat with enemy unit that failed a Morale test, the BA unit may immediately attack again as if it were the start of the Fight phase, if an enemy unit that was locked in combat with a BA unit was wiped or as a result of a failed Morale test, than the BA unit may consolidate up to 6" towards an enemy unit and attack them as if it were the start of the Fight phase if possible.

 

L)

BA units armed with pistols may fire them in the Fight phase after they have successfully charged, even thought this is normally not allowed (not my favorite but since GW seems to want to make use the pistol faction...and this would also greatly justify the cost of inferno pistols and hand flamers).

 

I personally like some combination of A, C, D, F, and/or H. Have I mentioned how much I love Encarmine Fury?

I'd be very happy if we got A, B and D or E. Maybe add "if they do not shoot" to B.

Edited July 17, 2017 by Quixus

[Sawtooth]

Could we get more than one set of Chapter tactics with the Codex? Flesh Tearers are pretty prominent, I could certainly see them getting their own after last edition.

[Arkangilos]

We don't have chapter tactics, we have genetic quirks.

 

I think we will get one "chapter tactic" for the entire geneline, and different warlord traits for the successors. At least that's what I hope

Edited July 17, 2017 by Arkangilos

[9x19 Parabellum]

I doubt it. Every other chapter tactic has applied at least partially to all infantry, bikes and dreads. I doubt we will be any different.

 

Perhaps, but I could also see the specialist chapters (BA, DA, SW) having more specific chapter tactics to reflect their less-Codex-Astartes-ways and the more niche ways they tend to deploy and fight (DA=Terminators! BA=Flyers! SW=Charge!)

[Sun Reaver]

 

... if there was a bonus to our flyer s .....

 

Fixed that for you.

 

 

Haha, touche good sir. 

 

Could we get more than one set of Chapter tactics with the Codex? Flesh Tearers are pretty prominent, I could certainly see them getting their own after last edition.

 

This would be amazing. It would make me feel better about not being able to have Dante and Seth in the same army/detachment/special rules bubble. 

[Karhedron]

Scouts:

• Melee Scouts just need a storm or something similar to get them into melee, which ours dont have access to. A single unit of sniper scouts is probably almost always a good idea though, for obvious reasons.

Since there is no longer any such thing as a dedicated transport, I think Melee Scouts do very nicely in a Rhino. Maybe add a Priest on foot to lead them and that is a lot of cheap S5 attacks......

[LutherMax]

 

Scouts:

• Melee Scouts just need a storm or something similar to get them into melee, which ours dont have access to. A single unit of sniper scouts is probably almost always a good idea though, for obvious reasons.

Since there is no longer any such thing as a dedicated transport, I think Melee Scouts do very nicely in a Rhino. Maybe add a Priest on foot to lead them and that is a lot of cheap S5 attacks......

Yeah they were good in 7th and they're still good now. Gotta make me some!

[Dont-Be-Haten]

I don't want to have to take 5 HQs to be good.

 

Especially if I'm wanting to play actual games and not air raid or razorback spam.

 

I don't want to feel as though I have to take certain HQs. especially in campaigns, when I play a successor.

 

It seems as though the Ultras have the best tactic so far. Raven guard while neat don't really fix prolonged combat. Disengaging a la Ultra is really, really powerful.

[LutherMax]

I think a rule that deters enemy units from disengaging from us would be very fitting - and powerful. It would stop (or at least reduce) units in shooty armies disengaging so that surrounding units can open fire on our melee units. This is a bit of a nightmare scenario for us otherwise.

[Captain Caine 24th]

On one hand I've been a bit disappointed through a few supplements, that GW hasn't really figured out what to do with BA. But, it's not all negative, there's hope in the ample evidence that GW has in fact gotten it right with new rules for lots of armies at this point--even Ultramarines are getting a moment in the sun. Still, I agree with many here that it's hard to categorize what exactly BA should be and that's a problem. 

 

The +1 strength and +1 initiative with some ample feel no pain availability is the simplest answer, but I'm not convinced it's what we want. Frankly it'd probably mean BA get pigeon holed into being a second-rate assault force again. A month after release I'll be on the forums defending the codex against people asking why not play space wolves (or Raven Guard, etc), they do what we do but better. Others may become disheartened in the monotony of charging gunlines with progressively fewer troops as the chaff/speed bump units fall back and shoot. What we need is invigoration. 

 

I think there is good reason to hope they get right this time. GW's got so many other armies right at this point (I'd accept change it even if it comes at the cost of some fluff retconns and some strange new units for us). Instead of finding ourselves again as a codex compliant chapter with a dash of assault flavoring (which admittedly, is in all likelihood what will happen), I'd characterize BA as a chapter of tragic heros, donned in golden artificer armor, standing against impossible odds. Why not have a leader in white, black, or gold, at the head of each squad? 

 

How does that translate into chapter tactics? I don't know, but for one of the most revered chapters to be known on the table top for death company, a unit of marines that have simply lost their mind, it's a strange thing.  Maybe it would make sense for BA to go back to a randomly generated death company at the start of the battle. Well... let's not get crazy here. Then again, it's conceivable based on previous Khorne Daemonkin or dark eldar that GW could fashion a game mechanic to face greater risk of succumbing to the black rage as the game turns progress.  

 

Yes, this is all speculation and wish-listing--but the idea BA will get done right isn't far fetched. Since just about everyone died in defense of Baal there is a genuine opportunity in the fluff to change up companies, chapter composition and special units, if needed. Things like Tycho's tactics with the lucifer armored task force at Armageddon are a good example that we need not just be defined by jump packs. Also, there are a lot of codexes coming in before us--with any luck we won't be the chapter tactics experiment gone wrong. Keep those fingers crossed! 

[Silas7]

Pile-in and attack before removing models in CC? Extended pile-in distance?

 

Not a big fan of jump-packs so I hope what ever CT BA and the successors get won't be too biased to one phase.

[durdle-durdle]

Pile-in and attack before removing models in CC? Extended pile-in distance?

 

Not a big fan of jump-packs so I hope what ever CT BA and the successors get won't be too biased to one phase.

I think extra consolidate would be cool for death company, but not necessarily as a chapter tactic

[Helias_Tancred]

Wonder if that means we might get JP specific traits or if they are just going to double down on assault for us. Maybe both???

 

Something other than +1 attack would be great like +1-2 inches/reroll a single die for charge. Or maybe 8" deepstrike for SG if set up within x inches of dante. Though I would take a 5+ Inv save or a cover save when arriving from deep strike.

 

Thy have mentioned in the rules, index, etc that we love jump pack marines and have more than any other chapter. I'm thinking something we get WILL be tied to that?

[Silverson]

 

 

Wonder if that means we might get JP specific traits or if they are just going to double down on assault for us. Maybe both???

 

Something other than +1 attack would be great like +1-2 inches/reroll a single die for charge. Or maybe 8" deepstrike for SG if set up within x inches of dante. Though I would take a 5+ Inv save or a cover save when arriving from deep strike.

Thy have mentioned in the rules, index, etc that we love jump pack marines and have more than any other chapter. I'm thinking something we get WILL be tied to that?

I hope so jump packs are the focal point of how I build my army, I'm actually surprised by how many people have said they don't use blood angels with jump packs.

 

Either way I hope it's not something that pidgin holes us into deep strike because it's to difficult to ballence.

[Blindhamster]

I'm old school and use some jump packs but it doesn't make up the entirety of my army. I want a rule that is applicable to most if it without forcing me into taking a very specific subset of models

[Charlo]

I think it really is telling that even us, the most level headed, passionate and humble (;)) section of the BnC, not being able to really nail down what our chapter tactics are means BA have a bit of an identity problem outside of "Stick a jump pack on it"....

[Blindhamster]

Forge World sum it up best IMO:

We are the shock and awe chapter.

To represent this, we should have:

1. Very hard assaults - this is typically represented with bonuses specifically on the charge, in an edition where everyone elses constant bonuses are quite powerful, we could afford to be given quite hefty charge only benefits (+1 S AND +1 A across the board maybe?) or if it's an always on benefit either +1 A or +1 S would work.
2. Leadership modding for "shock" part of it? perhaps we count casualties caused from combat as 1 higher for battleshock?

 

As well as the shock and awe aspect, we then also have our predisposition for jump packs, but I think Forgeworld had that right, jump pack stuff is a tactic we often use, and should probably have a warlord trait, relic or characters that give bonuses specifically to jump troops (like shrike does for RG), but isn't a defining feature of our chapter, just like it wasnt a defining feature of our legion.

[Bartali]

After seeing how powerful the Ultra and Raven Guard chapter tactics are, it better not be Furious Charge again.

[Charlo]

Forge World sum it up best IMO:

 

We are the shock and awe chapter.

 

To represent this, we should have:

1. Very hard assaults - this is typically represented with bonuses specifically on the charge, in an edition where everyone elses constant bonuses are quite powerful, we could afford to be given quite hefty charge only benefits (+1 S AND +1 A across the board maybe?) or if it's an always on benefit either +1 A or +1 S would work.
2. Leadership modding for "shock" part of it? perhaps we count casualties caused from combat as 1 higher for battleshock?

 

As well as the shock and awe aspect, we then also have our predisposition for jump packs, but I think Forgeworld had that right, jump pack stuff is a tactic we often use, and should probably have a warlord trait, relic or characters that give bonuses specifically to jump troops (like shrike does for RG), but isn't a defining feature of our chapter, just like it wasnt a defining feature of our legion.

 

Yeah this is it really.

 

Screw it, just put a bit of Day of revelation mixed with 8th ed falir into a Chapter Tactic and call it a day.

• +1A on the Charge (which in turn buffs DC back up to where they were)
• -1 to enemy leadership if successfully charged by BA (increases battleshock, stacks with death masks etc)
• -1 to hit all jump pack units that have arrived by deep strike OR moved 12"+ in the preceding turn with shooting
• Bigger consolidate move across the board - this really represents our crushing assaults and momentum gained. Even just 1" extra could be quite scary.
• Heroic intervention on Characters is doubled to 6" - keeps our bubble buddies in the fight where they belong

While this seems like a LOT, it's actually all geared around the assault and getting charges off and requires direct positioning to work.

 

If you compare this to the RG and UM tactics we've seen that are very powerful, but "always on" it makes sense.

[Xenith]

I doubt it. Every other chapter tactic has applied at least partially to all infantry, bikes and dreads. I doubt we will be any different.

Guys with jump packs are still infantry, just with the fly keyword. A chapter tactic would still effect them.

[Blindhamster]

 

I doubt it. Every other chapter tactic has applied at least partially to all infantry, bikes and dreads. I doubt we will be any different.

Guys with jump packs are still infantry, just with the fly keyword. A chapter tactic would still effect them.

 

 

but a chapter tactic specific to jump infantry would not have an effect on non jump infantry, which was my point. I'd bet on our chapter tactic being something that impacts all the above, not just a very small subset, which is why i doubt we'll get a chapter tactic that targets units with jump packs specifically.

Edited July 18, 2017 by Blindhamster

[Indefragable]

 

 

Forge World sum it up best IMO:

 

We are the shock and awe chapter.

 

To represent this, we should have:

• Very hard assaults - this is typically represented with bonuses specifically on the charge, in an edition where everyone elses constant bonuses are quite powerful, we could afford to be given quite hefty charge only benefits (+1 S AND +1 A across the board maybe?) or if it's an always on benefit either +1 A or +1 S would work.
• Leadership modding for "shock" part of it? perhaps we count casualties caused from combat as 1 higher for battleshock?

As well as the shock and awe aspect, we then also have our predisposition for jump packs, but I think Forgeworld had that right, jump pack stuff is a tactic we often use, and should probably have a warlord trait, relic or characters that give bonuses specifically to jump troops (like shrike does for RG), but isn't a defining feature of our chapter, just like it wasnt a defining feature of our legion.

Yeah this is it really.

 

Screw it, just put a bit of Day of revelation mixed with 8th ed falir into a Chapter Tactic and call it a day.

• +1A on the Charge (which in turn buffs DC back up to where they were)
• -1 to enemy leadership if successfully charged by BA (increases battleshock, stacks with death masks etc)
• -1 to hit all jump pack units that have arrived by deep strike OR moved 12"+ in the preceding turn with shooting
• Bigger consolidate move across the board - this really represents our crushing assaults and momentum gained. Even just 1" extra could be quite scary.
• Heroic intervention on Characters is doubled to 6" - keeps our bubble buddies in the fight where they belong

While this seems like a LOT, it's actually all geared around the assault and getting charges off and requires direct positioning to work.

 

If you compare this to the RG and UM tactics we've seen that are very powerful, but "always on" it makes sense.

Good ideas, but--IMHO--we neee thugs that are s bit more than that to stand a chance. UM and RG CT are "always on:" there are no conditions that need to be met that the owning player can not somehow influence.

 

Why I've soured on Furious Charge is that without some for of are-rolls to Charges that don't burn CP, those assaults aren't so Furious (because you don't make them all the time).

 

Likewise, my concern with extra nasty battleshick effects are that at the end of the day the units we really want it to hurt have means of negating it. UM get universal +1Ld, Deathwing are effectively Fearless. Thunder wolf Cavalry are T5 with a bunch of wounds, low model count and potentially 3++. In my humble opinion, I would rather kill things on the swing then on the after effect.

 

Have I mentioned how much I love Encarmine Fury?

 

...that would be something that effects every unit from Devs to Dreads to dakka Terminators and makes BA the cCQC force.

 

All said in friendliness over a beer, not crushing anyone's ideas.

[Charlo]

Fair shout. I'm warming to the idea of Encarmine fury, maybe we just keep it non-vehicles/ building though. So basically anything Organic gets to FEEL THE  FURY!