BA "Chapter Tactics" Speculation

[LutherMax]

The Imperial Fists chapter tactic is so 'beautiful in it's simplicity'. Units do not get the benefit of cover when attacked by them represents their reknowned marksmanship, and re-rolls to wound against buildings represents their siege warfare expertise.

 

Admittedly the buildings thing is situational but the no cover thing is huge!

 

What 'beautifully simple' thing could we have that is appropriate to our skills and style? As with the fists I think it should actually be two things - one far-reaching and one more specific.

 

+1S on the charge, or an extra attack when units disengage could be the situational benefit. What would be our 'always on' rule..?

Edited July 23, 2017 by LutherMax

[Quixus]

+1 to wound (in CC)

[LutherMax]

That could work, but would make some of the character buffs that grant it redundant (unless cumulative I suppose).

 

Maybe 7th style Furious Charge is the situational thing, and a bonus to movement (when advancing and charging) is the ubiquitous thing. That would cover both speed and ferocity but isn't fully limited to assault.

Edited July 23, 2017 by LutherMax

[Panzer]

That could work, but would make some of the character buffs that grant it redundant (unless cumulative I suppose).

 

Maybe 7th style Furious Charge is the situational thing, and a bonus to movement (when advancing and charging) is the ubiquitous thing. That would cover both speed and ferocity but isn't fully limited to assault.

I don't see why it shouldn't be cumulative...however +2 to-wound would be friggin huge!

[Cleon]

Considering initiative isn't a thing anymore, the closest I can think of to our old FC with the +1 I would be if we were allowed to chose two units each time it was our turn to select a unit to attack in melee.

 

It feels a bit weak, but I fully expect GW to feed us utter garbage now - probably as a result of Xeno/Chaos players complaints about facing the codex marines.

[Pendent]

I think I know what it's going to be.

 

We'll be able to assault after advancing.

 

It explains why angelus bolters are so overcosted. It fits perfectly with the fluff that's always talking about our furious, rapid assaults. It would differentiate us from the other assault focused codex marines chapters. It would highly incentive us to take Reivers (although I probably would anyways, to be honest). It's simple and elegant. If I were a betting man I'd put money on this.

[Panzer]

I'd be fine with army-wide advance&assault. I just wish we could use pistols when advancing the same way as Assault weapons.

[TheHarrower]

I don't think we'll get +1 to wound. They wouldn't want that stacking with Priests and frankly it's too good. I think the whole Descent of Angels allowing us to Deep Strike closer will be something we'll get, but my bet is it will cost 1CP to do. For Chapter Tactic, I can see Red Thirst letting all of our models consolidate 6" like the Death Company Dread and increasing Heroic Intervention distance.

 

Doing something with units disengaging from close combat is interesting, but I'd rather be able to kill models more easily. If we did get something like this I think letting that unit charge is too much. I could see letting that unit attack for free as they disengage. Maybe at a -1 penalty or only allowing 1 attack per model as a full attack might be too much. I just hope we don't get the short end of the stick again.

[LutherMax]

Considering initiative isn't a thing anymore, the closest I can think of to our old FC with the +1 I would be if we were allowed to chose two units each time it was our turn to select a unit to attack in melee.

 

It feels a bit weak, but I fully expect GW to feed us utter garbage now - probably as a result of Xeno/Chaos players complaints about facing the codex marines.

Furious Charge was +1 Strength wasn't it? That's what I was thinking of.

 

+1 Initiative was the Red Thirst I think.

 

 

Advance + Charge as a chapter tectic is fine with me – it helps us get into combat and is not dependent on something the opponent does or doesn't do – which is important.

 

Something akin to Descent of Angels I could see (or at least I hope for) as a Strategem, costing X CPs as TheHarrower said.

 

Simple, elegant, effective.

 

 

Oh please GW, please!

[durdle-durdle]

I know it would pigeonhole us into alpha builds...

...

... but man would I like to deep strike closer. Possibly as a stratagem, similar to the raven guard strike from the shadows one? I'm a-ok with +1 s on the charge, but would also like something else to go with it. Possibly better consolidation? 6" instead? I think that would be great.

[LutherMax]

If they gave as a +X inches on jump pack assault as a Strategem I would go Wayne's World we're not worthy on GW.

 

6" instead of 9" to get in Infernus range may be too much to hope for, but 7" to increase the chance of immediate charge would make me very happy indeed.

[Panzer]

If they gave as a +X inches on jump pack assault as a Strategem I would go Wayne's World we're not worthy on GW.

 

6" instead of 9" to get in Infernus range may be too much to hope for, but 7" to increase the chance of immediate charge would make me very happy indeed.

Especially because it's more than 9" so it would most likely be more than 6" anyway. ;)

[NTaW]

It would be interesting if we counted as charging when we consolidate into another combat after destroying an enemy. Would tie into the Red Thirst and not step on the toes of any other special rules I don't think.

[TheHarrower]

It would be interesting if we counted as charging when we consolidate into another combat after destroying an enemy. Would tie into the Red Thirst and not step on the toes of any other special rules I don't think.

 

That's a really cool idea. Might be a tad too situational though.

[NTaW]

Tied in with stratagems and more vehicles with overcharged engines we may be close enough to make more use of it.

 

Only thing we can pretty much guarantee ourselves is +1S on the charge, as it has been for several editions.

[LutherMax]

 

If they gave as a +X inches on jump pack assault as a Strategem I would go Wayne's World we're not worthy on GW.

6" instead of 9" to get in Infernus range may be too much to hope for, but 7" to increase the chance of immediate charge would make me very happy indeed.

 

Especially because it's more than 9" so it would most likely be more than 6" anyway. ;)

That's a good point. More than 9" is okay for the charge because you only need to end up 1" away, so being 9.1" away and rolling a 9 is enough to get into combat, but 6.1" is out of Infernus range!!

 

Ok, settle for a +2" so we land 7.1" away. Within FLAMER range :D

[Arkhanist]

Well, I've just confirmed a couple of questions I had about the marine codex.

 

First is that Blood Angels are specifically excluded from using any of the abilities, chapter tactics, strategems or relics from the codex. So we don't get 'defenders of humanity' i.e. objective secured for troops. Nor can we use any of the generic astartes strategems, which is a bit disappointing for the next few months. Presumably some of it will be duplicated into our codex, but we'll have to wait.

 

The second is confirmation that chapter tactics only apply to infantry, dreads and bikers in a detachment, and only if all the units in that detachment are from the same chapter.

 

This is a good video for confirming stuff, the above is from around 17:39.

Edited July 24, 2017 by Arkhanist

[Father Mapple]

Simple and constant trait?

 

It won't be adding to movement, as that could be done on the profile. It won't be deep striking modifications or closer as that won't help the majority of the units able to take chapter tactics. Bikes, tactical, scouts, Dreadnought, half the veterans, etc. The deep strike option will be a strategem or relic.

 

Something like fall back and assault, but can't shoot. This is pretty balanced as you have to trade off the special or heavy weapons you paid for, but you're getting something no one has except for Harlequins who only have pistol weaponry and are glass fragile. Also it reflects the red thirst effects causing BA troops to be reckless. It's not as much of "just a positive" as other chapter tactics so far, but it's more realistic.

 

Also, +1 S in assault in this edition is both better and worse in different respects. It's better as you can wound much higher toughness things, but S5 and S9 aren't wounding anything but T4 and T8 better. Old system allowed you to hurt T3 better and T7 easier as well. But with a power axe only cosseting 5 points, it's easy to get a +1 strength, and stacking the BA bonus with the weapon options isn't as huge of a shift in this edition with "unlimited" toughness and anything wounding on 6s. If there's a strength bonus, I expect it to be in all combat rounds. That sounds more like the Raven guard chapter tactic.

[MinamotoKansuke]

I don't think we'll get anything to do with Strength, we already have easy access to that with Priests. Anything else would make them redundant.

 

Looking at all the other Chapter Tactics there's plenty of hints of what we won't get and for me there's one thing that's clearly missing.

It was always there for everyone, but isn't anymore. So obvious that we don't even notice it's gone and we forget how good it would be to have it back.

And it would make all the sense in the grimdark universe for us to have it back as the aggressive, close combat chapter.

 

+1 Attack on the turn you charge

(yes, this would mean that DC get +2, why not? They had that with Rage before)

 

I'd bet my money on this, though I like the suggestion made by someone above that we could get Advance+Charge - seems plausible.

Edited July 24, 2017 by MinamotoKansuke

[Panzer]

+1 Attack on the charge would actually make a lot of sense as well.

[Charlo]

And has already been suggested in the thread :P

 

It's a tough one, +1A seems to be a Khorne Daemon thing this edition.

[Dont-Be-Haten]

I think The Wolves would be most likely to get +1 attack on the charge. It inherently reflects their savage nature, and raw physical/martial prowess. The Wolves have always had counter attack, this just makes sense they would be the ones to gain the +1 attack.

 

But it is a near thought though. I don't see us getting the +1 attack as standard. but we very well might.

[Father Mapple]

I don't think we'll see a flat bonus to characteristic as it could just be factored into the profile in a single faction codex. In Space Marines or Chaos, that type of modification makes sense, as they're a single book with the same unit entry being given multiple modifiers to represent different roles and play styles.

[Panzer]

Yeah I think characteristic modifier are very unlikely. Nothing so far modified a characteristic directly, always only the roll.

[Arkangilos]

I don't know. I can see the +1 str on charge for characteristic changes.