=][= Unit(s) of the week: Heavy Weapons Squads =][=

[duz_]

It has come to the Commissariat's attention that some of you have not being keeping up with your regular training requirements. As such we intend to rectify this immediately by commencing an intensive re-education of the command corps. Failure will not be tolerated!

 

This will be a weekly series of threads aimed at discussing the units available to the Astra Miliatrum in 8th edition. This can become a resource for those finding their feet in 8th and our brothers in arms who have joined the fight in the glorious Imperial Guard.

 

The next series will cover our main battle line units, Troops!

This particular thread will be dedicated to Heavy Weapons Squads.

 

As with the Special Weapon Teams, when the Platoon organization was split Heavy Weapon Squads have been moved to the Heavy Support slot.

Having always liked maxing out my Heavy Support slots with vehicles, so this new designation this has caused a dilemma for me. I did like running these Squads in 7th edition on occasion, mainly for fun.

Now however, if using a standard Brigade Detachment, I'm not sure if I want to push out my Basilisk, Wyvren or Leman Russ' to accommodate these.

The removal of instant death has certainly helped them, as with the order system and split fire. I do have 2 Autocannons and 1 Heavy Bolter in my Mordian force, which I figured would always be grouped together if I played them, now that's less of a concern to me thanks to split fire. 

Orders + Yarrick seem a good combination to sure up the output of these weapons on our BS4+ troops.

 

I have heard others comparing Mortar teams to Wyvrens in terms of effectiveness. Personally I love my Wyvrens, so I'm not sure I'd pass them up. 

 

Thoughts?

[Thoridon]

I'm in the process of building extra Mortar teams to spread across the backfield. They're extremely cheap, they can fill gaps to prevent 'deep strike' and with them not needing LoS you can keep them stationary to keep hitting on a 4+ rather than 5+.

[Withershadow]

Wyverns are cool, but I'm glad I kept the autocannon barrels, because I'm magnetizing them to run as Hydras. Those are so good this edition!

 

Regarding Wyverns vs. Mortars, mortars will put out a lot more firepower but are more fragile and cover more real estate (the latter can be an advantage).

 

Thudd guns are another contender in this slot.

[NatBrannigan]

sub 30 points for a Mortar team. Not much more to say there really!

 

The Heavy slots are as busy as ever for Guard of course, but it's just nice that Heavy Weapon Squads are even being spoken of as a viable choice now. A good budget option for the Guard commander scrapping for points.

[WarriorFish]

HWSs are much improved, the only real negative as mentioned is competing for HS slots but thanks to Infantry Squads and how useful officers are it's not too much trouble for Guard to muster some more ;) The Mortars are nice and cheap - sit them back and lob death no matter where they hide, great for whittling down sneaky/cowardly units and if you're really lucky forcing a mistake. I enjoyed using my heavy bolter squad too, as they put out a lot of shots that can tackle even vehicles well enough on a 5+ in most cases where the AP-1 helps.

 

For those of us with HWTs languishing unfinished this is the perfect motivation to rectify that :D Plonk an officer nearby and you can get some respectable results for the points :)

[Sawtooth]

I've proxied some heavy bolter units and have been very pleased. They seem to really be in the sweet spot with strength versus number of shots this edition, and they're incredibly cheap. I haven't played with autocannon or lascannon squads yet, curious how they'll perform.

[WarriorFish]

Heavy bolters are a winner, especially given how useless they were before. They put wounds on all but the toughest on a 5+ with more shots - makes them quite versatile as you can blast away at infantry and armour and achieve results :)

[duz_]

Yeh I'm curious to see how HBs stack up against ACs...

They get a high number of shots and are wounding most units on the same numbers as ACs.

Main difference is Ap and D. The later only makes a difference against multi wound targets.

Against horde / light infantry the HB might be slightly better depending how often you get 2/3 hits vs 1/2 of the AC.

[Mitchverr]

What would people say is the better option in the heavy weapons side of things, twin heavy stubbers or heavy bolters? Maths vs MEQ makes them even i think, so I am leaning to the heavy stubbers but wondered other peoples thoughts.

[WarriorFish]

Autocannons are more reliable to put the damage on, as against most vehicles you're wounding on a 4+ and then putting 2 wounds through. But you need to hit with those two shots and get through the armour save, so that makes it a bit more specialised in role where the HBs can target more freely - autocannons ideally want targets with two or more wounds for example. I think it makes them neatly distinct :)

[Nicodemus Doloroso]

Re: clogged heavy support, you can always take a spearhead detachment with a fairly minimal HQ tax (just take a naked company commander who you'll want to order heavy weapon teams anyway) then bring as much heavy stuff as you want. A spearhead Det of Coy Cmdr plus 3x mortar squads is under 120 points.

[Withershadow]

The only barrier to that is if local groups and tournaments start limiting number of detachments.

[Nicodemus Doloroso]

The only barrier to that is if local groups and tournaments start limiting number of detachments.

Well if they want to play that game, we can probably fill out a brigade detachment easier than anyone else. That allows for 5 heavy support slots. Plus remember that now when you take squadrons you have to deploy the squadron together, they can move independently after that.

[Gloomfoe]

Notice how no one has even mentioned missle launchers. Which is understandable. The frag missle is a mortar that requires LOS, and the krak missle is a lascanon with -1 Str and -1 AP. You're nerfing yourself taking them as opposed to either a mortar or lascanon.

 

Hell, put a lascanon in with two mortars, thats 42 pts. It might not be a bad idea spreading your lascanons out in multiple cheaper squads. If you have a full HWS w/lascanons, thats gonna be a big target. But if you have your 3 lascanons in three different HWS (mortars or bolters for efficiency and point cost) your opponent has to take them all out to eliminate the threat. And you can just throw wounds on the cheaper teams, keeping the lascanons firing till the end.

[CoffeeGrunt]

I really like that idea, Gloomfoe. I was thinking I'll be getting a Heavy Weapons Team sometime to kitbash myself together a Mortar Squad and Heavy Bolter Squad to supplement the troops. I think it'll be more effective to spread the Lascannon love around in that way.

 

Also IMO Guard can now fill slots absurdly cheaply. I put together a concept list that let me fill the biggest detachment almost entirely with Infantry at 1500pts or so, IIRC. Take Creed and it gives you an absurd amount of bodies and Command Points.

[Galron]

Some of us don't have the option of not using MLs for anti-armor. Elysians for example cannot bring lascannons or autocannon for that matter. But wow, we have the strength 5 area covered. Our heavy area like most everyone elses is likely even more full since we have to fill it with tarantulas, Cyclops, and of course mass heavy weapon teams. I have 4 mortars, two(soon to be 3) heavy bolter,  and 2 missile squads. I like missile teams, they provide a good utility weapon which is good for both AT and AP.

[Stylian_StHugh]

HWTs are now viable, along with most IG options. Mortars are overall the winners I think - 27pts for so many shots you can hide away and reach across most of an average board is great. HB teams are annoying though I feel Tarantulas win against them. Missiles are as useless as ever. Lascannons are just too expensive on a still vulnerable unit

[micahwc]

Earthshaker battery for 80 points and Heavy Quad Launcher + crew for 85 points seem to be winners. 

[Die4Emprah]

I ran 4 units of 3 lascannon crews. Without  them, I'd never have been able to face that StormLord. 

[Sawtooth]

I'm having a lot of success with autocannons after some testing. With the proliferation of Primaris Marines at my gaming store, these things are just murderous to them with their 2 damage. I think Heavy Weapons Teams are a hidden gem in this Codex. Really the only option that I don't like are missile launchers.

[Rob40k]

Mortars - just lots and lots of Mortars. 

 

Good range, no need for LoS, solid strength, okay number of shots. Very cheap pts wise. 

 

I also think a mix of Autocannons and Heavy Bolters are okay as well. 

 

Missiles and Lascannons I'm not keen on, high pts cost for a single shot weapon hitting on 4's

[olcottr]

Even without Instakill, HWT are still vulnerable to high damage wpns, generally the ones that instakilled them before (autocannons, krak missiles, lascannons, etc.)

 

I'd rather have them in infantry squads.  You can put them in front, giving better board control, and have ablative wounds, in the back, no less.

[Tirak]

Spending 40 points to bubble wrap 20 seems counter intuitive. It's 72 points to put 3 lascannons on the table. If I wanted to do that by mixing them into squads I'd need 180. Besides, when I field HWTs, I want them as part of my opponents "What needs to die this turn" equation. Between the tanks, Plasma Gun infantry, artillery, HWTs and flyers, the ability to toss in 6 lascannons in that must work into his thinking is invaluable.

[CoffeeGrunt]

Mate if your opponent is firing anti-tank weapons at your HWTs, either they've done so well they deserve the fire, you've done so badly there's no better targets to fire them at, or your opponent is just an idiot and you should punish them for it. :P

[FallenSoldiers]

I still like to mix my HWT load outs up. Maybe 2 autocannons with a lascannon, 2 heavy bolters with a lascannon... only ones I always run in 3s is mortars since I can hide them out of LoS and just let them do their thing. It gives me flexibility in where to allocate wounds as well as not allowing my opponent to take out all my AT or anti-horde firepower in one squad.