The Warp, Gods and Galaxys far far away?

[Slave to Darkness]

I have been thinking a lot today about the Warp and how the 'big 4' (not forgetting the Ork and Eldar gods) are the product of races from our galaxy. But what about galaxys far away, like the one the Nids have come from.  I assume the warp a thing there as well? If so would they still have the same Gods as we do, or would they have another type of Diety? Could there be other 'Older Gods' that we dont know about, though not necessarily more powerful than the Chaos gods but still there in the distance waiting for their time to come again (kinda like Cthulu having a little nap). 

 

I know RoC had fluff for 'lesser gods' but GW seems to have retconned away the good stuff over the years.

 

[Skaorn]

If the Warp is a dimension mostly influenced by thoughts and emotions, it's possible the actual Warp peters out not far beyond our galaxy. Maybe other gods and demons can't really interact in this galaxy because they can't reach. Other Warps might be similar, they might have a God similar to Khorne, or they could be very different, rainbows and lollipops. With some tinkering, the Nids effect on the Warp could be described as the hive mind essentially generating its own Alien Warp that is disruptive to ours. This is probably not a direction GW would go, but it was fun to think about. I do think limiting Chaos to four gods was a mistake. I know they had one minor one based around fear that seems like it could have easily made the jump to major in the setting.

[DuskRaider]

I would assume the Warp, being a mirror of our universe but also feeding on emotions and actions of those living here, would definitely exist within the boundaries of sentient populations and not so much on the fringe, as Skaorn said. That being said, I also don't think it would have any set boundaries either and thus if there are other civilizations or races beyond our galaxy, they'd also feed the Gods with their emotions and actions. 

[Slave to Darkness]

  rainbows and lollipops.  

 Here in Cloud Cuckoo Land, there are no rules: There's no government, no baby sitters, no bedtimes, no frowny faces, no bushy mustaches, and no negativity of any kind. 

[Eddie Orlock]

The warp would extend beyond the perceptions of the Imperium, it's just as likely to be calm like it was in primordial times at the dawn of the Slaan being bereft as it is of the thoughts and emotions of sentients to stir it up. Without planets to fight over even the influence of gork and mork would die attenuate over distance. The warp in the extragalatic void is likely relatively calm with only occasional ripples from those few astropathic transmissions that remain strangely strong with distance to leave any mark. Assuming warp ripples behave like most radiation in the material universe the cube-linear law would bring it down below background agitation fairly quickly.

 

The warp must exist beyond the perimeter of the milkyway because the Nid's are a psychic genus.

[Skaorn]

Slave to Darkness: My Little Pony Space Marines.

 

The Nids psychic powers(actual Psychers) could possibly be something they developed after snacking in our universe. It's also possible that it is the nature of the Hive Mind that would allow them to use psychic powers even if they were in an area the Warp didn't extend to. I would imagine GW would go with your take Eddie Orlock and that the Chaos Gods are Universal DuskRaider. I think it would be interesting though if the Hive Mind could unleash daemon like manifestations from time to time. Greater Daemon only, as they really don't need minor ones or Daemon Princes.

 

Edit: to add that I was talking about 40k psycher units.

Edited July 18, 2017 by Skaorn

[Captain Idaho]

I believe the Hive Mind is the opposite of what normally occurs in the Warp. Normally the material realm gives birth to creatures in the Warp, at least in the dominant majority in the galaxy of 40K. That "birth" can obviously grow and in time find ways to influence the material realm, as can be seen with the Chaos Gods.

 

However, I theorise that the Hive Mind existed before the Tyranids, either spawning them as a way to manifest in the material realm or taking control of a species somewhere along and using them as its avatar.

 

I support this hypothesis with the very nature of the warp itself. If there is an emotion, action or intellectual consideration it creates a echo in the Warp. Eventually, given enough of this particular material clay dumped into the immaterium, it will coalesce into a single entity which can gain consciousness and even become a powerful entity to rival other gods. I submit Slaanesh as my first example.

 

Now, knowing this, why is there not a Tyranid influenced version of a god? Why no entity of gluttony or devouring? There should be but the Tyranids are wholly a material species, even if they can tap into the Warp like other Material species. They have no daemons. There is no god of hunger.

 

Why is that? Tyranids are vast numerically speaking. Larger even than Orks. The Hive Mind and the Tyranid way is immense. There should be something.

 

As I've mentioned, this can only be because there is no "Tyranid way". They're not a species. They're a material manifestation of something already existing in the Warp. The Hive Mind.

 

Further evidence of this thesis comes from a common background comment regarding the Hive Tyrant. "...its destruction does not dimminsh it [the Hive Mind] in any way."

 

If all Orks were extinct, Gork and Mork would either die or need a need species to exist. Likely die, since race specific gods are decidedly tied to their species of origin. Note the Chaos Gods are more universal and cross species boundaries.

 

So, regarding Tyranids - if their material presence has no bearing on the Warp they must be biological automatons. They are purely empty vessels much like vehicles and clothing or whatever.

 

Which leaves the Hive Mind. It's a living entity but Warp based. As a Warp based creature, it's cause and effect on the warp is limited to what it inflicts on others (prey species in other words).

[the jeske]

Slave to Darkness: My Little Pony Space Marines.

 

The Nids psychic powers could possibly be something they developed after snacking in our universe. It's also possible that it is the nature of the Hive Mind that would allow them to use psychic powers even if they were in an area the Warp didn't extend to. I would imagine GW would go with your take Eddie Orlock and that the Chaos Gods are Universal DuskRaider. I think it would be interesting though if the Hive Mind could unleash daemon like manifestations from time to time. Greater Daemon only, as they really don't need minor ones or Daemon Princes.

Nope they are psychic from the get go. They were psychic, because they were sending scout species to our galaxy even before w30k. The hive mind does not create demons, because it has no emotions. To an extent you have the same happening with large number of orcs in the same place. Large groups of psychic tyranids create the shadow, and when this reachs fleet size it has a static effect on the warp. Nothing can go out, nothing can go in.

[Skaorn]

Sorry, I should have been more clear, I was specifically referring to actual psychers manifesting powers in the material universe.

[Skaorn]

Captain Idaho: I was assuming that the Hive Mind was essentially the Nid version of a God. You bring up some interesting things like killing a hive fleet doesn't diminish the Hive Mind. When you also think about the fact that the Nids also consume most of their own forces too then it kind of paints a picture to me that Hive Mind essentially converts the energy from consumed biomass into itself, if it doesn't rely on physical vessels to maintain it (Hive ships).

[jeffersonian000]

Tyranids were not a psychic race until they devoured one in our galaxy, specifically the Centuar one that use to be the iconic Tyranid back in the day. They were pyskers, and the Nids gained the ability to produce psykers after adding those to their own.

 

Genestealers gained psyker DNA from those races they infested.

 

It appears to me that the hive mind is a Warp entity at this point, but one with no emotion at all. This is why it quiets the storm and drains warp power from the local area. Hunger is not a emotion, after all, nor is survival.

 

SJ

[Walter Payton]

I've always liked the idea that the Tyranids are a bioweapon whose second victim was its wielders.

[Captain Idaho]

Not sure on the Tyranids not being Psychic until they conaumed something from this galaxy? What's the source?

 

The Hive Mind is a psychic presence isn't it? That to me would indicate that the theory of not being psychic until eating one wouldn't hold.

[Skaorn]

Tyranids were not a psychic race until they devoured one in our galaxy, specifically the Centuar one that use to be the iconic Tyranid back in the day. They were pyskers, and the Nids gained the ability to produce psykers after adding those to their own.

Genestealers gained psyker DNA from those races they infested.

It appears to me that the hive mind is a Warp entity at this point, but one with no emotion at all. This is why it quiets the storm and drains warp power from the local area. Hunger is not a emotion, after all, nor is survival.

SJ

I completely forgot about the Centuars, thank you for that. It is possible that the Hive Mind has something akin to emotion, though, just so alien that we can't recognize it. One major theme in 40k is that even Xenos that are close to human-like, still have very alien minds. Nids are just the most alien thing in 40k. Even Necrons can have emotions now.

 

Some related questions:

If the Necrons all woke physically and spiritually in the current galaxy, do you think that they would have an influence on the Warp and do you think Warp entities might be able to affect them (most Necrons in this scenario would probably completely loose it, waking up in a warrior Chassis after all)?

 

What do you think would happen to the Warp if the galaxy was completely dominated by the Tau? Like the Nids, their background hints at being engineered. We also know that they have a minimal presence in the Warp. What if they were created to psychical terraform the Warp to bring it back to a more peaceful state over millennia?

[Rik Lightstar]

The Tyranids and the Hive Mind are the material and immaterial embodiments of hunger, they're like a swarm of locusts on a galactic scale.

 

While the physical Tyranids are eating anything organic I think the Hive Mind is consuming the emotions of the Hive Fleet's victims and potentially lesser Warp Beings as well.

 

They're Symbiotic but not the "same" entity.

 

That's my theory.

 

Rik

[Closet Skeleton]

Hive Tyrants can reincarnate. That means they have souls QED. The Tyranids have vampiric spirit leech powers.

 

The death of a Hive Tyrant's body not weakening the Hive Mind is no different to banishing a Greater Daemon having no effect on a Chaos god.

 

The Rogue Trader rulebook is pretty explicit that the Zoats were bio-engineered as living weapons by the Tyranids, they weren't a pre-existing race from our galaxy and all non-Hive Fleet ones were descended from escapees (a bit like Catachan Devils in the current fluff). Zoats weren't any more psychic than any other species and the Tyranid ones had no powers, they would have nothing to do with the Tyranids having psychic powers even if they were still canon. Zoanthropes were suggested to be based on Eldar DNA in the 3rd ed Codex but that has nothing to do with other psychic Tyranids like Hive Tyrants.

[Captain Idaho]

Well we can ignore Rogue Trader stuff. It's out of date and been replaced.

 

I doubt very much that their psychic presence originated from our galaxy, rather it was "refined".

 

Regarding the death of a Blood Thirster being the no different to a Hive Tyrant; the 2 aren't comparable. A Hive Tyrant is a material realm creature. A Blood Thirster is a psychic/warp manifestion in the Material realm. If you wipe out all Orks you kill the Ork gods go with them. (Note the Chaos Gods are fueled by all races which is what makes them the dominant force in the Warp)

 

Reincarnation... That's interesting but I regard inaccurate. Is it their spiritual essence that is reincarnated or their conciousness? Are they essentially clones, that use a single recorded mind one at a time? I believe that is the case.

 

I like the idea that the Hive Mind is consuming the victims of the Hive Fleets. That ties in nicely with my own theory regarding the Warp Entity of the Hive Mind and the meaning behind its actions.

[The Doctor Of War]

Hive Tyrants can reincarnate. That means they have souls QED. The Tyranids have vampiric spirit leech powers.

 

 

Is it reincarnation though? Or is it just the standard science fiction version of cloning, where somehow the clone gets all the memories and skills of the original? It's never seemed to me like the Swarmlord, for example, was reborn with the same soul, rather that a new one was cloned with the memories of the original.

[Trevak Dal]

I think Necrons/Necrotyr were an ancient evolution of either humans/human like beings or Tau.

 

I like the idea of the warp is becalmed outside of the turbulence of sapient thought, but that's where the extradimensonal predators hunt.

[Slave to Darkness]

Wow a quick question ends up making more questions for me to ponder lol. 

 

As for 1st ed fluff being out of date Im not to bothered about it being cannon in current lore, its for an Inq28 project that Im kicking a few ideas around for, and Inquisigorkamundaheim isnt exactly 40k fluff legit at times. Although the following snippet of fluff has made convinced me that my path to further damnation is the right course of action

 

Black Crusade core Rulebook - FFG P11 'The warp has created many nameless Chaos gods, only to die with the passing of aeons'.

 

 

Slightly off topic, but this made me chuckle lol

 

Ans'l, Mo'rcck and Phraz-Etar are minor Chaos deities. Chaos Space Marines were rumored to praise them by putting spikes on their power armour.[2] Their names are puns on the last names of Bryan Ansell, Michael Moorcock, and Frank Frazetta.

2: Codex: Chaos Space Marines (3rd Edition, 1st Codex).

Edited July 18, 2017 by Slave to Darkness

[Rik Lightstar]

Have a look for the old Warhammer Fantasy Roleplay stuff, it's probably available as a pdf somewhere.

 

There's a lot of good stuff in there.

 

Rik

[Captain Idaho]

It's all good fun but the problem you have with such older stuff is when it contradicts the newer stuff.

[Slave to Darkness]

I have the main rulebook at my mates, unless her daughters coloured it in or ate it. 

[Mellow]

If the above Mind was a Warp god of sorts then that would explain why destroying hive fleets doesn't seem to have a detrimental effect on it.

 

Unless the Hive Mind is a physical object (e.g. A giant space brain thing) which would make a tantalising target even if it was in another galaxy.

[Slave to Darkness]

 

Unless the Hive Mind is a physical object (e.g. A giant space brain thing) which would make a tantalising target even if it was in another galaxy.

Like Behemecoatyl? 

 

Actually a crusade Led by Guilliman to destroy the Godbug would be a great idea. 

Edited July 19, 2017 by Slave to Darkness