Space Wolves Chapter Tactics

[Kasper_Hawser]

So far we've had news released about 2 Chapter Tactics for the Ultramarines and Raven Guard.

 

Raven Guard- http://www.belloflostsouls.net/2017/07/40k-raven-guard-chapter-focus.html

 

Ultramarines - http://www.belloflostsouls.net/2017/07/40k-deep-thought-chapter-tactics.html

 

As per tradition, the non-codex compliant chapters will not be updated so fast, the new SM Codex will not be including Blood angels, Dark Angels, Grey Knights, Death Watch and Space Wolves.

 

So what do we do while waiting for our chapter tactics, warlord traits, strategems?

 

SPECULATE!!!

 

Actually what I am really interested in discussing is whether we should expect our usual counter attack, meaning an extra attack even if we are charged, or should we expect something different?

 

If something different, what unique chapter tactic would sound suitable for the Warriors of Fenris? Something to denote cunning and ferocity rather than just wolf wolf wolf attack attack attack.

 

I guess the old counter attack wouldn't be so bad, probably even better considering charging units no longer get + 1 attack. But given the new initiative rules, we may not be able to utilise our chapter tactics until AFTER we're mauled.

 

As heretical as it may sound, to keep with the whole "charge us at your own risk" theme, I would go with the Slaneesh daemons quicksilver rule, which says regardless of being charged, the Space Wolves would strike first. To differentiate from the Slaneesh daemons, maybe add a penalty to hit when doing so.

 

Or perhaps something that can allow us to advance and charge.

 

Thoughts? Lets talk about chapter tactics first before branching to warlord traits and strategems.

[Guest]

Maybe if we charge/are charged we always goes first?

+1 Attack when charging?

 

 

 

Strategem: Reckless Assault: unit can advance+charge but have -1 to hit?

Strategem: Relentess warriors: During this turn, any unit that is killed can attack one more time?

Strategem: Fury of Russ: During this turn Units get 1 additional attack if they are wounded/killed?

[Hasuro]

I think they could proceed further with counter-charge theme from wulfen-edition codex, i.e. allow to charge instead of overwatch. And strike first if rolled more than attacker. Who knows :)

[Fang_Guard23]

when I saw the Raven Guard abilities, it showed an amazing synergy,

 

enemy units reduce their BS by one when shooting at a Raven Guard unit more than 12" away, "strike from the shadows" can make your models get in close and charge or lay down a heavy base of fire with heavy weapons.

 

the counter-charge rule was amazing, provided support for units that couldn't handle things on their own. if they do keep counter-charge it makes you wonder if they will make it a chapter tactic or a stratagem that they would have to pay CP for.

[Rune Priest Jbickb]

Honestly I would welcome something else to spend cp on. In my 3 games I've spent 3 co total, while having 7 every time. The reroll hasn't come up and charge order was only critical vs orks. I'm stoked for our special stratagem.

 

I think our chapter tactics mnemonic at be an updated acute senses type. Maybe units can't setup within 10 inches of space wolves units or ignore the first negative to hit modifier.

 

Our strategem will likely be reminiscent of counter attack. Maybe one the negates the charge advantage completely, going straight to alternating assaults or maybe, like mentioned above, all charged units get +1 attack.

 

Regardless chapter tactics look solid and I hope every army gets the like and that they manage to maintain balance with them.

[Guest]

Just saw the White Scars Chapter Tactics.

 

Can move an additional 2 inches when advancing (stacks with turbo boost for 8 additional inches)

 

Can also Charge in the same turn that they fallback.

 

 

These are pretty strong tactics, hopefully someone with more experience can see where they are going with these tactics to guess what the SW tactic might be.

[Grimtooth]

Pretty sure we will keep the whole, "spring forward to meet our attackers" that we seem to have had for ever in the form of just attacking simultaneously when charged.  Not sure if Acute Senses will make the cut considering no random table edges on reserves anymore.  There will probably be a bonus to charges or reroll of charges, which will probably clean up what I have seen has been some major complaints with TWC/Wulfen; failed charges.  

[PeteySödes]

To play devils advocate, I'm not super sure we'll get something as strong as what the others have gotten. In my mind it stands to reason that given we have multiple unique units and tons of wargear we may get slightly less love in the chapter tactic area. I agree that we'll likely get some form of counter attack, but I just don't think its going to go as far as negating charge bonuses.

 

I hope I'm wrong though the announced tactics are flippin' brutal. Seems like we'll have to wait a while anyways so we'll have to deal with the other for a while and hopefully get something fluffy and balanced.

[Grimtooth]

To play devils advocate, I'm not super sure we'll get something as strong as what the others have gotten. In my mind it stands to reason that given we have multiple unique units and tons of wargear we may get slightly less love in the chapter tactic area. I agree that we'll likely get some form of counter attack, but I just don't think its going to go as far as negating charge bonuses.

 

I hope I'm wrong though the announced tactics are flippin' brutal. Seems like we'll have to wait a while anyways so we'll have to deal with the other for a while and hopefully get something fluffy and balanced.

One thing that was brought up in another thread was that while a chapter tactic might be found lacking at first glance, it could synergize really well with the chapter specific stratgems.  So who knows how good the actual chapter tactic might be versus how well it might work with our stratgems.

[PeteySödes]

Very true. Before any of the SM strategems were released it was my thought that we may simply get a discounted counter offensive stratagem.

[Gherrick]

I'm thinking for counterattack, something like a change in charge resolution order. Nothing as strong as all our units get to go first, but perhaps lower the cp cost of that strategem from 3 to 2.

 

I REALLY want to see more outflank options, and maybe have our TWC have a 3d6 charge like the one assassin.

[Wolf Guard Dan]

Very true. Before any of the SM strategems were released it was my thought that we may simply get a discounted counter offensive stratagem.

 

This would be really cool. I want this.

 

Our "counter attack" should be a Chapter Trait not a strategem though. It has been a staple since at least 3rd edition. My ideas below don't synergize like GW did with WS and RG.

 

Chapter Trait- #1 Counter Attack

Either: friendly units may make a heroic intervention move

or: Enemy units do not automatically go first if they charge. Resolve each combat as it no enemy unit charged this turn.

#2 Acute senses

Enemy does not gain bonus for being in cover

 

I would rather nix Acute Senses and get Company dependent traits. But with how the Index is laid out I don't think we will. They would need to add faction key words for the Company. They may do it. Depends if they want to treat us just like another Space Marine Chapter or our own army. They have the groundwork from Warzone Fenris. Do it GW.

 

Stratagem: Some outflank mechanic. They've been trying to make us an outflanking army.

Stratagem: Counter Offensive 1 CP.

Stratagem: Hopefully something that allows a first turn charge.

 

Relics: Probably a mix of CoF and SW books from last edition.

[Brother Hellion]

So far the chapter tactics reflect the primary characteristics of the chapter selected. I mean Ultramarines are supposed to be strongly loyal to the codex and the ideas of their Primarch which is why they have the +1 lead, where as the ravenguard are the OGs of covert-guerrilla tactics so having to be hard to shot at beyond 12 inches helps them. I know one guy that's going to like this.

 

So for us we might get something that might allow us to charge into combat easier or being able to go first during the first round of combat since, lets face it, we're really into close quarters fighting.  Considering we have little to go on thanks in part to the imperial index, all we can do is speculate.

Edited July 18, 2017 by Brotherblur

[Wolf Guard Dan]

All the Chapter Tactics have just been leaked. IF ignore enemy cover save bonuses. So my idea for acute senses is out. All of them look pretty decent. IF probably the weakest. Salamanders look strong.

[Rune Priest Jbickb]

Wow so chapter tactics are quite strong these days. Hopefully people will be cook about it and only play codex versus codex til everyone is out. Because lacking these rules disadvantages everyone without a codex unless the codex re points the models to include it.

[Guest Triszin]

thoughts:

 

Acute sense:

when charged space wolves hit at (5+) when in overwatch

 

Counter charge:

 

When charged spacewolves may declaire counter charge and instead of overwatch fire they may declare a charge, if successful they may attack first.

 

----------------------

 

 

 

 

Very true. Before any of the SM strategems were released it was my thought that we may simply get a discounted counter offensive stratagem.

#2 Acute senses

Enemy does not gain bonus for being in cover

 

I would rather nix Acute Senses and get Company dependent traits. But with how the Index is laid out I don't think we will. They would need to add faction key words for the Company. They may do it. Depends if they want to treat us just like another Space Marine Chapter or our own army. They have the groundwork from Warzone Fenris. Do it GW.

 

Stratagem: Some outflank mechanic. They've been trying to make us an outflanking army.

Stratagem: Counter Offensive 1 CP.

Stratagem: Hopefully something that allows a first turn charge.

 

Relics: Probably a mix of CoF and SW books from last edition.

 

 

I also like this idea for acute senses.

 

 

Strategem: Operating Behind Enemy Lines

- we may deploy our scouts, fenrisian wolves from any edge of the board.

 

Strategem: Heroes from fenris

- spend 1 (not named)-2 CP (named) to add an additional HQ unit to your army

Edited July 18, 2017 by Triszin

[Grimtooth]

All the Chapter Tactics have just been leaked. IF ignore enemy cover save bonuses. So my idea for acute senses is out. All of them look pretty decent. IF probably the weakest. Salamanders look strong.

I don't know man, considering how strong cover is in this edition in terms of making sure your models survive the shooting phase, the Imperial Fists tactic basically bones all those units that NEED a cover save.  Looking at Hellblasters/Intercessors/Aggressors/Inceptors and what their weapons can do, an IF player is going to be shredding anyone thinking they are gonna find safety in cover.  

[MaveriK]

I dunno I kinda like how 30k wolves have

 

Bestial Savagery: +1 WS when charging. Counter-attack and must sweeping advance if they win combat on a turn they charged or counter charged.

 

Hunter's Gait: +1 to run and consolidate (termi and jumpers excluded).

 

Preternatural Senses: Ignore night fight. Re roll table edge when outflanking. No infiltrators within 18" even if the unit is out of sight.

[Gherrick]

Anti-infiltrate measures from Acute Senses would be very thematic, although it should also increase the range of night fighting and not ignore it outright (actual night vision like Tau or Dark Elves should still trump Acute Senses, IMO).

[NightHowler]

I dunno I kinda like how 30k wolves have

Bestial Savagery: +1 WS when charging. Counter-attack and must sweeping advance if they win combat on a turn they charged or counter charged.

Hunter's Gait: +1 to run and consolidate (termi and jumpers excluded).

Preternatural Senses: Ignore night fight. Re roll table edge when outflanking. No infiltrators within 18" even if the unit is out of sight.

Looking at the other chapter tactics, it looks like most get one special rule. Assuming we get two may be a stretch, but I'd bet the family farm we don't get more than two.

 

I think the "no infiltrators within 18inches" would have been my favorite prior to 8th, but now deep strike happens T1 and without scatter infiltrate isn't anywhere near as important as it used to be.

 

If I had to pick one of the others, I'd probably go with "+1 WS when charging". Again, if GW asked me and I got to pick one of those.

[Gherrick]

Having a tactic that enhances our melee would help, but I feel we already have fairly strong boosts from our HQ units. I'd rather see us get a boost that thematically fits the "hunter" aspect of our chapter, such as thwarting infiltration, or improving our outflank options.

[Guest]

What about a tactic that allowed us to prevent  fallback, or allowed us too charge a unit immediately after they fallback even during the opponents turn.

 

UM Player: "Alright going to fallback my UM intercessors fall back and shoot..."

SW Player: "I'm going to charge/prevent fallback"

UM Player: "Its not your turn"

SW Player: "My chapter tactics, and I make it, so you can't fallback or shoot"

[Gherrick]

Hmm, preventing disengagement...could be pretty cool. Definitely can't be automatic, but what kind of check? Maybe based on movement, or a flat d6 but SW win ties?

[Kasper_Hawser]

Preventing disengagement sounds like the Dark Eldar rule though.

 

Just looked at the leaked chapter tactics. http://www.belloflostsouls.net/2017/07/40k-all-space-marine-chapter-tactics-are-out.html

 

Most of them look like a watered down version of the 7th ed chapter tactics which is fair enough.

 

1) Iron Hands get their old 6+ FNP against ALL wounds. Lost IWND, but now that's the apothecary job.

2) Salamanders sort of get back their master crafted rule since most of the time, each unit had one character anyway with a MC weapon. As an additional gain, they also get to reroll 1 to wound.

3) White Scars move faster, fall back and still charge. The last part is sort of like Hit and Run. Very good especially on those geared for assault. Fall back, shoot them up, then charge back in again. Very well done for 8th

4) Black Templars - Reroll all charges. At first seems lacklustre but to me, the gem is that they don't need any characters to give them the reroll, so their deepstriking units are a lot more likely to get the charge. Great tactic in the end

5) Ultramarines - As usual, get the overpowered nonsense, able to fall back and still shoot and they have to be braver than other marines. damn smurfs.

6) Imperial Fists - thank god they didn't get bolter drill again, that would have been ridiculous. As it is, ignoring cover still makes all their units more effective without breaking anyone.

 

All of them are quite good and doesn't scream cheese to me except for the Ultras and maybe the White Scars, who both gain a form of hit and run by falling back and ignoring some of the fall back penalties.

 

So given the above what will Space Wolves most likely get? My hope is one of the following:

 

1) Getting an extra attack when being charge like old counter attack. Not keen on this one though as it requires being hit first before benefitting

2) Getting +1 to hit and/or +1 to wound on the charge. this would be awesome and make us stronger in assault without stepping on the black templars toes

3) Cannot be overwatched when charging.

[Brutallica]

What about a tactic that allowed us to prevent  fallback, or allowed us too charge a unit immediately after they fallback even during the opponents turn.

 

UM Player: "Alright going to fallback my UM intercessors fall back and shoot..."

SW Player: "I'm going to charge/prevent fallback"

UM Player: "Its not your turn"

SW Player: "My chapter tactics, and I make it, so you can't fallback or shoot"

 

This is what we need! It would really enhance the melee/fighter aspect of space wolves, dont play the cowards game with a wolf! 

Edited July 19, 2017 by Brutallica