Space Wolves Chapter Tactics

[Guest]

Preventing disengagement sounds like the Dark Eldar rule though.

its very SWish, we arent called the rout for nothing. When the enemy is routed we keep advancing.

 

D. Eldar strike me as attack fall back and attack again, like the raiders they are.

 

UM: The enemy is routed. Good regroup and prepare for another attack.

 

SW: The enemy is routed. HAHAHA KEEP ATTACKING WOLVES! PURSUE THEM TO THE EDGE OF MORKAI/HEL!!! NONE SHALL GET AWAY!

[Kasper_Hawser]

 

Preventing disengagement sounds like the Dark Eldar rule though.

its very SWish, we arent called the rout for nothing. When the enemy is routed we keep advancing.

 

D. Eldar strike me as attack fall back and attack again, like the raiders they are.

 

UM: The enemy is routed. Good regroup and prepare for another attack.

 

SW: The enemy is routed. HAHAHA KEEP ATTACKING WOLVES! PURSUE THEM TO THE EDGE OF MORKAI/HEL!!! NONE SHALL GET AWAY!

 

 

Not saying that the rule isn't SWish, it's just that the Dark Eldar already have that rule in their Index, so I think Space Wolves should get something different rather than copy paste from their rule.

[Hasuro]

What bother me more than our general "chapter tactics" (I'm pretty sure it'll play around counter charge/strike) - sub-chapter-tactics for our great companies. We had nice set of core formations in late 7th, and I hope it'll be translated into 8th somehow, like more general chapter tactics further tweakable for preferences of various lords. 

[Kasper_Hawser]

Honestly I never had a situation to use counter charge back in 7th ed. the Greatpack formations were just so cumbersome and non-optimal back then. So no, I don't want a situational counter-charge.

[Hellrender]

just a charge as a reaction to charges instead of overwatch. This allows us charhes without faving overwatch.

 

But i find that rather lacklustre. It doesnt help at all against units that will never charge. Considering the rules that ws and rg have, it also doesnt create viable builds per se (the rule itself chabges very little), which is the aim of te chapter tacytcs so far .

 

So anotherboption would be combining that with a +1 attack when we charge, even if as reaction.

 

Then it would be powerful.. But potentially too much.

 

 

So what else can they do around the counter charge theme...

[eyeslikethunder]

 

 

 

Preventing disengagement sounds like the Dark Eldar rule though.

its very SWish, we arent called the rout for nothing. When the enemy is routed we keep advancing.

 

D. Eldar strike me as attack fall back and attack again, like the raiders they are.

 

UM: The enemy is routed. Good regroup and prepare for another attack.

 

SW: The enemy is routed. HAHAHA KEEP ATTACKING WOLVES! PURSUE THEM TO THE EDGE OF MORKAI/HEL!!! NONE SHALL GET AWAY!

Not saying that the rule isn't SWish, it's just that the Dark Eldar already have that rule in their Index, so I think Space Wolves should get something different rather than copy paste from their rule.

so lots of armies share rules under different names. I have never liked counter attack from thematic approach you never see in the books or fluff. It's left over from 3rd where DA shot, BA assault and Oh what we going to with SW ah I know counter attack which never fitted the fluff. Edited July 19, 2017 by eyeslikethunder

[Gherrick]

Hmm, while this won't happen very often, having a strategem to attempt to "counter-charge" a failed charge attempt could be interesting (especially if that unit does not get overwatch).

[Guest]

Looked at some older rules, what about true-grit? Would that be useful at all?

[Hellrender]

Isnt the old true grit that onw can wield boltguns 1 handed? Because that is already sort of covered.

[Guest]

Boltguns could be used in CC also IIRC.

[Deadnaughty]

True grit allowed bolters to be used as an additional close combat weapon, in the same way that pistols were (giving +1 attack).

An 8th edition version would allow Space Wolves to shoot bolters within 1" of enemies in the same way as Pistols are allowed.

[Gemini]

THAT turns super gross fast... (I'm looking at you Storm bolter WG Bikers).   

 

I would TAKE it if offered but it does get crazy in certain builds.

[PeteySödes]

True grit allowed bolters to be used as an additional close combat weapon, in the same way that pistols were (giving +1 attack).

An 8th edition version would allow Space Wolves to shoot bolters within 1" of enemies in the same way as Pistols are allowed.

 

Damn that would be crazy...

 

But yea I'll echo some of the "meh" sentiments of counter charge in (<=)7th. If they bring it back i hope its something more tactical than simply +1 attack or some other modifier. I would love the previously mentioned cheaper counter offensive or possibly even just a better version that when used on a 4+ (or some other factor) we negate their charge bonus.

 

Pretty much anything that reenforces our pressure style of mid/close play would be lovely IMO.

[Brother Hellion]

Having a tactic that enhances our melee would help, but I feel we already have fairly strong boosts from our HQ units. I'd rather see us get a boost that thematically fits the "hunter" aspect of our chapter, such as thwarting infiltration, or improving our outflank options.

 

This could be a good thing when facing off against the like of deep striking tau crisis suits with their 3d6 flamers, especially if they use a friendly teleport homer to get that close to your troops.  Course Acute sense could work another way such as ignoring the 9 inch restriction to deep striking units allowing units such as terminators or sky claws up to 6 inches of enemy models. Course that would make flamers deadly against them.

[Kasper_Hawser]

We should keep it simple just like the rest of the gang.

 

I guess a simple +1 attack on the charge wouldn't be so bad, although I rather get something more fun. I would say +1 to wound on the charge, but somehow I feel that should be given to Blood Angels instead as a replacement of their old furious charge.

 

I would like something tactical that doesn't necessarily emphasize melee though, like the White Scars and Ultramarines which give a lot of flavor and tactical options to them rather than just charge charge charge.

[NightHowler]

How about this?

 

Pack Hunters: after all players have finished deploying their units but before the first turn, the Space Wolf player may remove one of his units and redeploy it anywhere on the table as long as all models in the unit are placed at least 9" away from any enemy models.

[Kasper_Hawser]

How about this?

 

Pack Hunters: after all players have finished deploying their units but before the first turn, the Space Wolf player may remove one of his units and redeploy it anywhere on the table as long as all models in the unit are placed at least 9" away from any enemy models.

 

Fluffy and crunchy, although it sounds more like a Raven Guard thing. Plus I heard one of their warlord trait/strategm is this already

[Garreck]

Don't Dark Eldar wyches have something that prevents falling back? Definitely powerful, though, and especially against armies whose special abilities hinge on falling back.

 

I like something along the lines of what Wolf Guard Dan mentioned. Something that mitigates the disadvantage of being charged (which is essentially what counterattack did.) Maybe something that, like other chapter tactics we've seen, allows an ability for free that would otherwise cost command points (interrupting attack order for free for instance.)

[Grimtooth]

Going with the articles posted so far from GW we need to keep in mind the new direction that is being taken with Chapter tactics is that they benefit the army more as a whole and not just specific units or weapons anymore. With that in mind;

 

Counterattack negates being charged and assaults go simultaneous with a command point ability to go first at like two points or something.

 

Or

 

Counterattack gives +1 attack when charged with a command point ability to allow simultaneous close combat at like two points cost.

 

Benefits some units more than others, but the entire army benefits.

[Wolf Lord Loki]

I dont think army wide "we go first in charges" is fair.

 

What about:

Counter charge: +1 to hit in first round of combat

Acute senses: units cannot set up within 10 inches of FACTION: SPACEWOLVES; KEYWORD: INFANTRY, CAVALRY

[Rune Priest Jbickb]

I doubt it would be universal we go first. But it might be more like the existing strategem where one of the chargers get to go first, then alternate after that. This included with a +1 attack if charged seems on par with the current chapter tactics. As it only applies if multi charged.

 

Another option would be to have units that were charged this turn get to attack at full strength regardless of who goes first. So worded something like this:

 

Space Wolves infantry bike and Calvary models that were charged this turn, do not remove models as casualties until the end of the Fight phase.

 

That would be on par with what we are seeing I think. Not sure if this would be on the level of strategem or CT but more likely strategem.

 

I do think acute senses will be represented. More likely as a area of denial for infiltrate and the like, similar to 30k and hopefully a rotational part like ignore night fighting (also like 30k us)

[Grimtooth]

I doubt it would be universal we go first. But it might be more like the existing strategem where one of the chargers get to go first, then alternate after that. This included with a +1 attack if charged seems on par with the current chapter tactics. As it only applies if multi charged.

 

Another option would be to have units that were charged this turn get to attack at full strength regardless of who goes first. So worded something like this:

 

Space Wolves infantry bike and Calvary models that were charged this turn, do not remove models as casualties until the end of the Fight phase.

 

That would be on par with what we are seeing I think. Not sure if this would be on the level of strategem or CT but more likely strategem.

 

I do think acute senses will be represented. More likely as a area of denial for infiltrate and the like, similar to 30k and hopefully a rotational part like ignore night fighting (also like 30k us)

That second option seems a little too much of a pull from the Wulfen rules. I see how you focused on bikes and cavalry, probably to account for increased toughness, but again from what Chapter tactics we have seen and what GW has said, they are moving away from Chapter tactics that force taking specific units or weapons (GW used bolter tacticals for IF and flame weapons for Sallies as examples of getting rid of the old).

 

I like the +1 attack idea if charged and if combined with a command point option to attack simultaneous, I think that would reflect a solid version of Counterattack since they would not be completely wiping out the bonus of charging and striking first, by just dulling it a little. Plus if not worried about the unit charging you and striking first because you think you could absorb and save the damage (high toughness models with good saves) then you can opt out of spending CP to attack simultaneously.

[Kasper_Hawser]

In other news, it seems like Obsec is returning for the codex compliant chapters (and Black Templars, go figure).

 

I really don't want a repeat of the stupid counter charge rule from Curse of the Wulfen, especially when characters can do that already.

 

 

I doubt it would be universal we go first. But it might be more like the existing strategem where one of the chargers get to go first, then alternate after that. This included with a +1 attack if charged seems on par with the current chapter tactics. As it only applies if multi charged.

Another option would be to have units that were charged this turn get to attack at full strength regardless of who goes first. So worded something like this:

Space Wolves infantry bike and Calvary models that were charged this turn, do not remove models as casualties until the end of the Fight phase.

That would be on par with what we are seeing I think. Not sure if this would be on the level of strategem or CT but more likely strategem.

I do think acute senses will be represented. More likely as a area of denial for infiltrate and the like, similar to 30k and hopefully a rotational part like ignore night fighting (also like 30k us)

That second option seems a little too much of a pull from the Wulfen rules. I see how you focused on bikes and cavalry, probably to account for increased toughness, but again from what Chapter tactics we have seen and what GW has said, they are moving away from Chapter tactics that force taking specific units or weapons (GW used bolter tacticals for IF and flame weapons for Sallies as examples of getting rid of the old).

I like the +1 attack idea if charged and if combined with a command point option to attack simultaneous, I think that would reflect a solid version of Counterattack since they would not be completely wiping out the bonus of charging and striking first, by just dulling it a little. Plus if not worried about the unit charging you and striking first because you think you could absorb and save the damage (high toughness models with good saves) then you can opt out of spending CP to attack simultaneously.

 

 

Brother Ramses gives a great suggestion, meaning we don't get the first attack when charged unless combined with the strategem. This will increase the incentive of battleforged armies for more CP AND utilise the +1 attack in previous counter attack. I like it I like it!

 

Pity we'll have to wait sometime before we see where GW goes with Space Wolves, Grey Knights, Blood Angels, Dark Angels and Deathwatch in terms of chapter tactics.

[Grimtooth]

As I mentioned previously, it just seems that GW is pushing synergy between Chapter tactics and stratagems to make the armies a bit more dynamic for all lists.

[VIth]

I think some of the HH Rites of War or Legiones Astartes rules for SW would be good. Bestial Savagery (+1 to hit on the charge rather than +1 WS), Hunter's Gait: +1" to advance moves, Fury of the Pack: +1 additional attack if you charge a unit already locked in combat, Bleed and Harry: Hit and Run, Overwhelming Assault: +1 combat resolution in the enemy's deployment zone.

 

All good and characterful, but I especially like an updated Bestial Savagery and Fury of the Pack.