Space Wolves Chapter Tactics

[Kasper_Hawser]

 

 

 

From my reading of the lore, and my opinion. Yes BA and SW both are "the melee marines", but in their own way. BA are more up-front about their tactics using jump packs to quickly get to their enemy, while the SW's are more about flanking and semi-ambushing their enemies. Yes their paths cross a lot especially since SW's have 12 great companies that seem to use every one elses tactics (Bloodhowls were BA's, Ironwolves were Iron Hands, Blackmanes were UM). Wolves seem to outflank their enemy more using their prenatural senses.

 

BA's are caught-up with the codex, they must appear to be 100% compliant with the Codex and maintain their honorable image while hiding their death company. SW's do not worry about that and already appear as barbarians and no reason to even appear to be codex compliant. Maybe with the new lore of the Wulfen being accepted we may see the Red Thirst/Black Rage more accepted and the BA's therefore less codex-compliant.

 

 

One thing I could never figure out, is that how come despite the "damning secret" of both the Black Rage and the Curse, the Space Wolves and Blood Angels never gained the same reputation as the Dark Angels in silencing those who stumble upon them. I guess in both cases, the BA chaplain and SW Priests have almost certainly rooted out the likely flaws at the initiate level and even continuing into the battle brother stage, so are more able to control outside exposure to the curses.

 

Either that or they simply don't care and the Inquisition never could find the time and priority to bring them down because of the flaws due to their otherwise exemplary records.

[Gherrick]

I don't see anything wrong with TWC, so I guess we can agree to disagree. I also agree that we should have a chapter tactic that reflects cunning over brute force. Giving all infantry, cavalry, and beast units outflank would work well to that end.

[Garreck]

I think going with the theme of "the hunt" makes a lot of sense. What's nice from a SW player perspective is it works thematically whether you're pro-TWC or not.

 

Non-SW players might take issue with us getting a very powerful and unique tactic of course.

[Gherrick]

Non-SW players might take issue with us getting a very powerful and unique tactic of course.

Powerful is relative. I like us to get a tactically-rich chapter tactic. Something a bit more flavorful that "reroll all charges", or +1 to X rolls, etc. Outflank can be "our" tactic, allowing us to easily surround our foes and let them be fearful of hugging too close to edges.

[TheWolfLord]

I think outflank would be a curse as Chapter Tactics. You won't be able to come on within 9" of an enemy model so a decent opponent will cover large areas of the table edge to block SW units entering.

 

Scouts and Harald already have that rule so I don't think our Chapter Ractics will overlap.

 

I think we'll get a similar rule to the EC for Coumter Attack and I'd like Acute Senses to push infiltrators back like our 30k rule.

[Kasper_Hawser]

I don't see anything wrong with TWC, so I guess we can agree to disagree. I also agree that we should have a chapter tactic that reflects cunning over brute force. Giving all infantry, cavalry, and beast units outflank would work well to that end.

 

Agreed to disagree. :) I'm fully aware that it is just my personal distaste, no need to impose on others.

 

That being said, having some sort of outflank on our infantry, bikes and dreadnoughts wouldn't be the worse chapter tactic we can get. And as noted in the recent codexes, even if you have a chapter tactic/legion trait that sucks or isn't strong (word bearers and Imperial Fists come to mind), the strategems would more than make up for it.

 

A bit strange having a lumbering Dreadnought somehow sneak its way up the board though. As much as I love the idea not to mention the strength of a Dreadnought's multimelta or Hellfrost cannon 9 inches away from enemy, fluff wise it really doesn't make sense. 

[Hellrender]

Doesn't Outflank have a small limitation build in? No more than half your force can outflank. Since 8th edition outflank rules happen in any of your movement phases, and not during deployment, you have to deploy atleast half of your force on the board.

[Bozak]

Hopefully our chapter tactics will also be available for cavalry units and not only for infantry/bikes/dreads. As an example, if you RAW the new chaos codex a juggerlord does'nt profit from the legion traits which needs to be errata'd.

Edited August 11, 2017 by Bozak

[Kasper_Hawser]

Doesn't Outflank have a small limitation build in? No more than half your force can outflank. Since 8th edition outflank rules happen in any of your movement phases, and not during deployment, you have to deploy atleast half of your force on the board.

 

there is a limitation? Actually there is no Outflank in 8th Edition, only a few units such as Harald and the Wolf Scouts have something similar, which only limitation is 9" away from enemies as long as appear on the side of the board.

 

I think you are refering to the rule somewhere which says at least half of your army must be deployed on table, in other words you can't null  deploy. Correct me if I'm wrong though. Thus far I've yet to try null deployment in 8th, due to the drastic increase in Drop Pod cost. Don't even know if it can be done anymore since I heard/read somewhere that half the army must be on the board turn 1.

 

@ Bozak - yeah, would be a doozy if they forgot to add cavalry units to the chapter tactics inclusion list. Not that I like using Thunderwolf cavalry or Thunderlord builds, but as it is, TWC are weaker as it is in 8th edition.

 

So with that in mind, maybe better not to have outflank as out CT. I'll still go with +1 attack or + 1 to hit when charge.

[Hellrender]

Indeed, there is a rull that doesn't allow for null deployment when playing matched play.

 

Page 215 of the BRB, under Tactical reserves.

 

In short, atleast half the total number of units in your army must be set up on the battlefield, even if every unit in your army has an ability that would allow them to come from some form of reserve.

 

Meaning that a generic outflank rule is wasted on half the number of units, especially so that a lot of our units already have abilities like it. Wolf Scouts, Terminators and drop pods all provide similar options.

Don't get me wrong, i love the idea of the cunning hunter. Why i liked Bran Redmaw's 6th edition rules. But i don't see it as a good chapter rule in 8th

 

I do think that something with movement shenanigans, is a good idea. But it should encompass what space wolves are known for. Drop Pod assault (to an extend), Short ranged firefights, followed by counter charges. Any rule should attempt to benefit all of those characteristics.

 

 

So my idea: Hunter's Gait

 

Models with the <Space Wolves> keyword can advance and still charge. In addition <Space Wolves> <Infantry> can advance after arriving from some form of reserve.

 

 

Strategem: Cunning Predators

 

2 CP. Select D3 Infantry units not embarked on a Transport. They can choose to re-deploy anywhere outside of the enemy deployment zone, and atleast 9" away from any enemy units.

 

Strategem: Counter Attack.

 

2 CP. Used during the enemy charge phase, after the opponnent has declared a charge, but hasn't rolled for charge distance yet. Select one <Space Wolves> unit within 12'' of the enemy unit attempting to charge. That Space Wolves unit can instead charge the enemy unit, automaticly making the charge. The enemy unit that was attempting the charge, can't choose to Overwatch. The Space Wolves unit will fight first in the Fight Phase.

 

 

Note: I haven't looked much at the strategems for other Space Marine units, so i'm not confident in my CP cost assesment. In addition, i'm not a big fan of my idea for Advance and charge, as it doesn't include any benefit to shooting really (other than that you can move 6'' + D6'' + Shoot + charge). But it's the best i could come up with right now

Edited August 11, 2017 by Hellrender

[TheWolfLord]

If we get a way to outflank it'll be by using pregame stratagems. I'm fine with that. If we can outflank an infantry unit for 1CP and use it for multiple units it'll be very strong and save us points on transports too

[Gherrick]

As far as half of our units deployed rule, we kinda have a unique edge in that a single Cyberwolf is a unit for a measily 15 points. Considering they can also serve as an early game anti-deepstrike/et al by providing 9" bubbles, they would allow us to put more meaningful units into reserves. You just have to make sure at least one is well hidden to prevent getting tabled before you bring in your reserves.

[Hellrender]

but that would mean having to spam a few cyberwolves just to make full use of our chapter tactics... That sound a bit boring to be fair. Nothing against a rule that a few units make better use of than others, but i rather have that all units can get some benefit from a rule, so that it doesn't limit army composition.

[NightHowler]

I really like the option of taking a lone cyber wolf, but I'll actually be surprised if we can still take solo cyber wolves after our codex comes out. I expect we'll see more than a few changes to the rules / wargear options / special rules / unit composition, and I believe solo cyber wolves will go the way of the "no -1 to hit" tempest hammer. We'll see though.

 

I like Hellrender's ideas, but I'm always nervous when I start seeing ideas that I like because then I'm more likely to be disappointed when we get something less impressive.

[Guest]

I really like the option of taking a lone cyber wolf, but I'll actually be surprised if we can still take solo cyber wolves after our codex comes out. I expect we'll see more than a few changes to the rules / wargear options / special rules / unit composition, and I believe solo cyber wolves will go the way of the "no -1 to hit" tempest hammer. We'll see though.

 

I like Hellrender's ideas, but I'm always nervous when I start seeing ideas that I like because then I'm more likely to be disappointed when we get something less impressive.

 

I wonder if some of the FAQ decisions will be reversed. IIRC some of the CSM FAQ were reversed, so hopefully that may make our wolf guard a top unit again. I fear though that we may also see a nerf to Bjorn. 

 

 

 

So my idea: Hunter's Gait

 

 

Models with the <Space Wolves> keyword can advance and still charge. In addition <Space Wolves> <Infantry> can advance after arriving from some form of reserve.

 

 

I also like this idea from Hellrender. It is very SW hunter and offers us the chance to not rely on transports and is very unique to the SW's.This rule plus his stratagems would make the Battalion formation devastating.

[Kasper_Hawser]

 

I really like the option of taking a lone cyber wolf, but I'll actually be surprised if we can still take solo cyber wolves after our codex comes out. I expect we'll see more than a few changes to the rules / wargear options / special rules / unit composition, and I believe solo cyber wolves will go the way of the "no -1 to hit" tempest hammer. We'll see though.

 

I like Hellrender's ideas, but I'm always nervous when I start seeing ideas that I like because then I'm more likely to be disappointed when we get something less impressive.

 

I wonder if some of the FAQ decisions will be reversed. IIRC some of the CSM FAQ were reversed, so hopefully that may make our wolf guard a top unit again. I fear though that we may also see a nerf to Bjorn. 

 

 

 

So my idea: Hunter's Gait

 

 

Models with the <Space Wolves> keyword can advance and still charge. In addition <Space Wolves> <Infantry> can advance after arriving from some form of reserve.

 

 

I also like this idea from Hellrender. It is very SW hunter and offers us the chance to not rely on transports and is very unique to the SW's.This rule plus his stratagems would make the Battalion formation devastating.

 

 

I like this as well. Advance near enough to actually use our flamers from reserves. Would also encourage to field more foot infantry without relying on Rhinos and Razorbacks to get across the board.

[HagarTheBear]

Unit forgoes overwatch and rolls as if it were checking for charge distance. If that roll meets or exceeds the total charge distance rolled by the attacker, the Space Wolf unit strikes first in close combat.

[Hellrender]

So not only do we have to give up overwatch, we also have our rule based on luck? If we happen to roll bad our chapter tactics dont do anything for us?

 

And thatbin addition to it only helping units that want to be in cc. Long fangs or plasma wolf guard dont really appreciate this.

 

No im sorry, but not a fan of that :(

[HagarTheBear]

I believe that the advantage of turning the tables on a potentially disastrous charge requires balance. Saying Space Wolves strike first in close combat regardless of who charges seems to be far too powerful. Also providing some relics that you can put on WGPL that allow you to roll three keep two for charge distance at a small points cost balances that out completely, especially when you add units that grant a re-roll on a failed charge. Something like this would make Blood Claws pretty powerful since they get an even greater boost for charging.

 

I think the White Scars got the best out of the deal so far. Allowing Space Wolves to disengage and charge immediately after would be a great way to represent countercharge as well, but I would hate to have a copy of someone else's tactic. Also the blanket rule that simply states that all close combat involving Space Wolves is simultaneous works as well.

[Guest]

Doesn't EC get "Strike first no matter what" as a tactic. I do not see why it would be too powerful for SW but not us.

 

So far the best tactics that seem fair are:

 

Hunters Gait: SW can Advance and charge. additionally Infantry can advance from reserves. (Hellrender)

Counter-charge: SW can countercharge instead of overwatch, if we roll high enough we get to charge and strike first (Triszin)

True-Grit: SW can fire their bolters in CC rather than Bolt Pistols (Deadnaughty)

Hunters Pursuit: If an enemy fallsback from CC, SW can roll to charge again immediately after the enemy fallsback but before they can shoot/attack/charge. (Caldersson)

 

All of these are pretty SW'ish and allows us to either get into melee, stay in melee, or enhances our melee prowess.

[Kasper_Hawser]

Countercharge sounds cool, although that would mean we force ourselves to charge a unit that is about to charge first and is most likely better at combat than us. Not to mention against Slaneesh units, they will STILL hit us first which would counter the counter charge. God that sounds confusing.

 

Actually scratch that, I rather not have the counter charge rule. Hunters pursuit is better, almost as good as Dark Eldar preventing you from running away if not better.

[wilkco]

I would like to see a automatic reroll on charges or maybe say an add +4 to charge rolls or something that would play to the Close combat style.  Would be great for hot dropping Rockfist in with a group of terminators it reduces down to 5 roll to get in  to combat. 

 

Or like the terrify inquisition physic skill where the unit can not fire overwatch. 

[Torin]

What if the allow us to deepstrike 6" rather then 9"... that would be nice to.

[PeteySödes]

true grit and hunters pursuit +infinity please.

[Wolf Lord Loki]

What about:

 

The wolves falling on the prey- "when enemy units fail moral checks in combat with the wolves, the wolves get the same number of auto hits at unit magority strength"

 

Different rules but characteristic of the wolves