Chapter Focus: Imperial Fists

[Lemondish]

I am fairly certain that it is used once, for a single unit firing, not the entire army. It's not clear, but I very much doubt that for 1CP you get to give all your Infantry bolt weapons potential extra hits.

I agree. It doesn't actually clarify that it affects only infantry, which is where the confusion stems from. It states that it must be used prior to shooting with an infantry unit and that every model with a bolt weapon is affected. I think that's clear that the intent is to only apply to that unit, even if it doesn't explicitly state that.

Edited July 24, 2017 by Lemondish

[LucidNinja]

5 bolter hugging centurions in a crusader with a captain in rapid fire range. I think it would be worth 1cp...

[Lemondish]

If you'd read my post properly then you'd see that I included units with heavy bolter in my thought process.

What is a unit of 10 Intercessors? 10 Bolt shots. That's 1.5 6s on average. That's one additional Bolter hit for 1 CP. Wow great bargain...not. In Rapidfire range it would double of course (unless they already suffered casualties) but two additional Bolter hits for 1 CP still sucks.

Technically a 10 man Intercessor unit can generate 10 Bolt Rifle shots at 30'' or 20 at 15'' or 20 at 24'' if equipped with the Auto Boltrifle, or 10 at 36'' if equipped with the Stalker. In the assault or rapid fire case, that's potentially 3 extra hits on average 2 getting through, without even taking into account the reroll auras a gunline like that would have.

 

Considering it costs 1CP to reroll a single die, I think this is clearly in the same power bracket. Having it apply to an entire army for 1CP would just turn it into a constant buff and not a stratagem.

Edited July 24, 2017 by Lemondish

[Gen.Steiner]

sfPanzer - I did notice. Just re-iterating.

[anarchistscourge]

I'm off the opinion it works on all infantry units but must be used before an infantry unit fires (thats also my dearest hope, as we need a bit of love). This coupled with Inceptors could be quite nice. 

[Lemondish]

I'm off the opinion it works on all infantry units but must be used before an infantry unit fires (thats also my dearest hope, as we need a bit of love). This coupled with Inceptors could be quite nice. 

 

Directly from the review video: "BOLTER DRILL (Imperial Fists Strategem)

Use this strategem just before an IMPERIAL FISTS INFANTRY unit attacks in the Shooting Phase. Each time you make a hit roll of 6+ for a model firing a bolt weapon, that model can immediately make another hit roll using the same weapon at the same target (these bonus attacks cannot themselves generate any further attacks). For the purposes of this Strategem, a bolt weapon is any weapon profile whose name includes the word 'bolt' (e.g. boltgun, bolt rifle, heavy bolter, boltstorm gauntlet). Pedro Kantor's Dorn's Arrow is also a bolt weapon. "

 

Remember, this happens just before you make the attack, which means it happens in the 4th step of the shooting phase - you've already selected the active unit, the target, the weapons you will fire, and are about to resolve those attacks. The rule does specifically state that it only applies to Infantry, just that it applies to any model firing a bolt weapon. Note, it does not say Infantry model, just model - a tank or flyer with a heavy bolter is a model with a bolt weapon. The only way it makes sense to apply the rule to only Infantry, as you believe it should be, is if it only applied to the infantry unit that you nominated to make that shooting attack in the first place, and would end following that shooting attack.

 

It cannot apply to all infantry units without making two huge assumptions of intent that are not explicitly stated in the rule at all. 

Edited July 24, 2017 by Lemondish

[anarchistscourge]

Ahhhh. You make a very good point sir, and after having a re read of the specific rule i would then, unfortunately and begrudgingly , say that it would only effect the one infantry squad that you choose. If it were to effect multiple units, why would they not just say "at the start of the shooting phase". 

Whichever way there certainly needs to be an FAQ / Errata on this. 

 

"For the purpose of this strategem, a bolt weapon is any weapon profile whose name includes the word 'bolt'."

This line right here could be taken as a combi-flamer / plasma / grav would be a bolt weapon. The weapon profile does include the word 'bolt' in it.....

[Panzer]

Dunno. RAW I'd still say it affects them all since it only defines when you have to activate it but then doesn't say it only affects that one unit. That being said I'm sure RAI is that it works only for that one unit but it's worded pretty badly.

[CaptainMarsh]

It is fairly clear to me: You spend that CP for Bolter Drill, it affects one infantry. I have read it, re-read it, then read the posts here, and the only way it makes sense any other way is if one is attempting to cheese it by going the most hardcore interpretation of RAW when the RAI is blatantly clear. This reminds me of the Act of Faith debate Sisters players were having before the FAQ where, hardcore RAW, you could give AoFs to vehicles even though they lacked the ability because of the way Celestine and the Imagifier were worded.

If they wanted it to affect all models in your army with Bolt weapons, they would have likely put it at the very start of your Shooting phase. The fact it specifies the time and unit it does seems very clear.

[LucidNinja]

I'm on the fence with this one and it needs a FAQ. I want it to apply to all infantry for awesome and fluff reasons, and can see it being worded that way so that you could get all your vehicles shooting done before deciding if you need to use it. But so can 3 extra wounds....

But it is strong, if whole army. We rolling that one dice you need can be game changing

[Gen.Steiner]

Having been bitten by the Imagifer-and-vehicle RAW interpretation I am leaning towards a conservative interpretation of this one. To me it seems fairly clear:

 

You select a unit to shoot with, select their target, and then spend the CP to use Bolter Drill. It applies to that unit for that shooting phase. Cross your fingers, pray to the Emperor, and hope for lots of 6s!

[Extropian]

Going to jump onboard with the "1 unit only" here, it seems pretty clear what is meant.

I expect if anybody tries t lawyer it, GW will simply FAQ it.

[Panzer]

GW should FAQ it BEFORE anybody tries to lawyer it because RAW clearly doesn't represent RAI right now.

[Gen.Steiner]

It seems relatively clear - you choose to spend the CP before an Imperial Fists Infantry unit shoots. The effect lasts for the duration of that unit's shooting, and then ends. It grants potential extra hits to all bolt weapons fired by that unit in that phase.

I am certain it will be FAQ'd; and probably very soon too.

[Panzer]

Where does it say that it works only for the duration of that unit's shooting tho? Nowhere. That's RAI (most likely, unless the Infantry part is the typo) but not RAW.

[Dosjetka]

=][= The debate about how the Bolter Drill Stratagem works has gone on for long enough. Each side has presented their arguments many times over and yet despite this no clear consensus has been reached here. I doubt that any further discussion will make that happen so discussion of that particular topic stops here.

Discuss the issue with your opponent before the game starts and play with whatever interpretation seems fair to the both of you until GW publishes a FAQ clarifying the issue. To make sure this happens please let GW know about the issue via their social media in a clear and polite way.

 

Thank you. =][=

[Firepower]

I've banged on about 'em here and there since the Index, but with this stratagem, Heavy Bolter + Hurricane Devastator Centurions...the dakka.  The dakkaaaa.  

 

Not as all rounder efficient as Grav + Hurricanes seem to be, but who doesn't like rolling big globs of dice, and having those dice tell you 'Go on, roll some more!  Dance me across yonder table in a merry twirl of imminent death to the unclean!  But be faithful, squire, lest the Emperor spite us both by bringing the Dreaded Singular Pip of Failure up for all to see'

 

...right, gotta take my meds today.

[Gen.Steiner]

Firepower, you beautiful crazy person, that description has made me want to go and buy some bolter Centurions for my fully finished Righteous Fists army.

I don't know whether to hate you or hug you.

[LucidNinja]

Add storm of fire warlord trait for extra grins

[yodaid764]

Totally taking part of your post for my sig, Firepower.

[Brother Sgt Kartr]

I seem to be in the opposite camp from most of my brothers. I absolutely enjoy the Ignores Cover from our Chapter Tactics, because I run an Infantry heavy army and my opponents either forget I ignore cover and get blown away or they just sit in the open and I blow them away anyway! So even when it's not actively in use, it's still forcing my foe to change the way he plays and is getting inside his head. It sounds lackluster on the surface, but in practice I think it's really solid.

 

Bolter drill on the other hand... terrible. A couple of extra shots with the weakest weapons in the armory isn't worth a CP. If you're rapid firing 20 bolters with re-rolls everything (Pedro or a 3cp CM) you go from 17-18 hits to 20-21 hits. On S4 Ap 0 (-1) shots it just seems like a waste of CPs. Masterful Marksmenship is much much better, especially paired with Storm of Fire, letting your Sternguard go to Ap -3 on 5 and 6 instead of just 6. Plus you go from wounding vehicles/monsters on 5+ to 4+ (still not great) or wounding TEQ on 3+ and T3 on a 2!!! Sternguard are absolute infantry shredders right now.

 

I liked Pedro better when he didn't have to take the Crimson Fist Warlord Trait and I'll probably never take him now because he can't get Storm of Fire. Still he's amazing in a gunline with his re-rolls of everything. Plus if you use a couple squads of Sternguard to screen your Devastators from assault, then 10 man squads go from 21 attacks in melee to 31! Makes charging the gunline even scarier for your heretical foes.

 

Actually that might be where Bolter Drill really shines, in Overwatch. You're only hitting on 6s anyway so every time you score a hit you can try for another one! With Pedro or a command point Chapter Master giving you re-rolls on all your misses, popping Bolter Drill and then fishing for those 6s to hit (re-rolling 1-5) and then getting extra hits and re-rolling those misses.... Damn it specifies "in the shooting phase" so Bolter Drill is back to being essentially worthless :(

[Lysere]

Something to remember, you can use multiple stratagems at a time just no duplicates.

 

Yeah bolter drill isn't amazing but if you have re rolls to hit and wound combined with sternguard and masterful marksmanship and maybe even storm of fire you turn a minor bonus into a decent one. Even better if you have the Rhino Primaris for the hit bonus.

[Brother Sgt Kartr]

Something to remember, you can use multiple stratagems at a time just no duplicates.

 

Yeah bolter drill isn't amazing but if you have re rolls to hit and wound combined with sternguard and masterful marksmanship and maybe even storm of fire you turn a minor bonus into a decent one. Even better if you have the Rhino Primaris for the hit bonus.

That's a lot of resources to put into one attack though. The Rhino Primaris is a good point though, Bolter Drill procs on a 6+ which means with a Rhino Primaris you'd get it on 5-6 and you can still re-roll the 2s since they're misses for the purpose of re-rolls (even though they hit after modifiers). That also means that a Heavy Bolter Devastator squad could get 3 bolters activating Bolter Drill on 5-6 and one (with the Signum) getting it on 4-6... Hmmm still not amazing, but if you've got a horde of Orks coming at you it'd help thin their numbers.

 

Also should be pointed out that the restriction on Strategems (can't use the same one twice in the same phase) only applies to match play. In open play or narrative you can use a strategem as many times as you have CPs for in the same phase.

[Gen.Steiner]

I think Bolter Drill works best on Heavy Bolter devs, bolter centurions, and bolter Aggressors. Anything else is a waste, I think.

[IcarusWaxWings]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but can't you only activate Bolter Drill in the Shooting Phase? I think I looked to activate it for an overwatch for a tactical squad but couldn't.