Imperial Fists in 8th - brainstorming thread

[Dosjetka]

Info on Chapter Tactics, Warlord Trait, Stratagem, and Relic here: https://www.warhammer-community.com/2017/07/21/chapter-focus-the-imperial-fists-crimson-fists-and-black-templars-july21gw-homepage-post-3/

 

The ideas of this thread is to come together and think of tactics and synergies we can use in games of 8th Edition using the Imperial Fists based on the knowledge we have of our rules from the upcoming Codex: Space Marines.

 

Note: Discussion of how good/bad our Chapter Tactics/Warlord Trait/Stratagem/Relic is does not belong in this thread. Please go here to discuss those topics.

[Dosjetka]

To get the ball rolling it's pretty clear our Chapter Tactics and Strategem favour a gunline-style army with HQ's providing boosts with their auras. I'm not sure what the costs are in this edition but an Aegis Defence Line or two seems like a good investment to allow our units to gain a +1 modifier to their armour save while mowing down enemy troops who don't get any protection from cover.

 

Having the Warlord within 6" of whatever units are behind the ADL will make them even harder to shift against certain armies (those with plenty of AP -1 weaponry).

 

The Stratagem allows us to roll an extra dice for every To Hit roll of 6 when using bolt weaponry so I'm thinking Intercessors or heavy bolter Devastators would be the best units to benefit from this especially since you can only use the Stratagem on one unit.

 

Now, your turn. :tu:

[Hellebras]

I think we have some decent incentives to use mostly infantry. Our warlord trait isn't as good for big models, of course, and ignoring cover when shooting makes our infantry anti-tank more cost effective than other chapters'. Along with making us better at taking out MEQ in cover and other targets that can be tough to shift. I don't think my playstyle will be changed much from in 7E, all things considered. Mostly an infantry gunline, with a couple of counter-assault units hanging around to get whatever survives the guns. Maybe more fortifications, so I can guarantee my own cover, and I can see me keeping my warlord with the main gunline rather than as part of my counter-assault elements so I can contribute his WT and re-rolls (especially for Bolter Drill candidates) to the bulk of my firepower.

[KGatch113]

I think we have some decent incentives to use mostly infantry. Our warlord trait isn't as good for big models, of course, and ignoring cover when shooting makes our infantry anti-tank more cost effective than other chapters'. Along with making us better at taking out MEQ in cover and other targets that can be tough to shift. I don't think my playstyle will be changed much from in 7E, all things considered. Mostly an infantry gunline, with a couple of counter-assault units hanging around to get whatever survives the guns. Maybe more fortifications, so I can guarantee my own cover, and I can see me keeping my warlord with the main gunline rather than as part of my counter-assault elements so I can contribute his WT and re-rolls (especially for Bolter Drill candidates) to the bulk of my firepower.

You mean bolter drill candidate, since you can only use the stratagem once per shooting phase.

 

I'm underwhelmed by the CT and Stratagems. I was really hoping for something inline with what IF have had in the past, since Lysander is hands down the second toughest hth character in the Marine Index ( after Gillyman, and just ahead of Grimnar). 

 

Don' centurions benefit from the Stratagem? A big unit of them would be great, especially since they can move and shoot with no penalty. Protect them with Lysander, throw an apothecary to heal them and that's a really good firebase. I'd throw a unit of Aggressors in the backfield to protect objectives back there. 

 

Now...how to deal with big stuff like Knights and Wraithknights and flyers....

[Boldthreat]

http://i.imgur.com/6QL5F87.jpg

 

I think the new Intercessor options should not be discounted when coupled with our Chapter Tactics and Stratagem.  10 of these guys armed with Stalker Bolt Rifles sitting next to your Warlord in cover, ignoring your enemy's cover, rerolling your own misses, on top of potentially generating more shots will be pretty fun.  

 

Aggressors, Intercessors and Reivers ignoring cover and being able to benefit from Bolter Drill will be pretty good as well.  I only wish that the CT replaced the building rule with some variation of Tank Hunter.  I will definitely be nabbing a Redemptor and more Hellblasters.  Particularly Hellblasters with the heavier guns.  

 

My big thing is make sure my game has a lot of terrain, and consider fortifications!  I am looking forward to building Troop heavy gun line armies. 

[LucidNinja]

Call me stubborn but I'll be doing what I had always planned for my fists, fortification, scouts, lots of terminators... Still seems to work

[Honda]

My mancrush on Intercessors just went up a couple of notches. I used the bog standard versions of them, only 5 man squads, and I was very pleased with how they performed.

 

Being able to take 10 of them and some of these other gun options is going to be sweet.

[Firepower]

A note on the Intercessors, according to RAW you can't mix and match guns in a squad.  The whole squad chooses the same gun.  The guy in that vid also pointed out that 2 auxiliary launchers doesn't say anything about being able to use more than 1 grenade in a turn, so unless you combat squad them...

 

Anyway, I second the Centurion idea.  Hurricanes this edition are delicious.  

[LucidNinja]

A note on the Intercessors, according to RAW you can't mix and match guns in a squad. The whole squad chooses the same gun. The guy in that vid also pointed out that 2 auxiliary launchers doesn't say anything about being able to use more than 1 grenade in a turn, so unless you combat squad them...

 

Anyway, I second the Centurion idea. Hurricanes this edition are delicious.

The grenade launchers sound lame for the moment, book in hand might change things but yeah very odd. The dark imperium intercessors are now an illegal load out it seems, stalkers are just bolt rifles with scopes right? You get 7 scopes and 3 no scopes...

[Firepower]

I think that's a small enough detail that no one would mind you going 'These are all Stalkers.'  ;)

[Nakuth]

I've been out of the hobby for a while, but still be stalking these forums. I've ordered two boxes of Reivers for my long planned, never assembled Subjugators army. I plan on enjoying one squad with bolt carbines & grapnels, and the other with grav-chutes & knives.

 

I intend to use Bolter Drill with the carbine squad the turn they arrive, hopefully deep behind enemy lines. Choose a soft and/or key target, and pump as many shots into it as possibly, hopefully with some additional shots from Drill.

 

Apart from that, I've also got a Redemptor on the way & intend to build a mostly mobile funkiness, with both bolt rifle and auto bolt rifle Intercessors. Sprinkle some power weapons around and largely make use of the ignores cover rule while trying to pincer my opponent between my Reivers & gunline.

[Lemondish]

Call me stubborn but I'll be doing what I had always planned for my fists, fortification, scouts, lots of terminators... Still seems to work

 

All these new rules have done is confirm how I'm going to play my primaris Celestial Lions, they will be a gun line army, aegis defence lines and or bastions. Maybe a couple of redemptors for good measure

 

That's the way I'm leaning. Hoping to get a quote soon for a bunch of older models I'm not going to use and start into a Primaris heavy force myself. 

[Brother Chaplain Behrtram]

What do you think about a Captain on PA with Stormshield+Combiplasma or Master Crafted Bolter? I think It could be useful as a cheap HQ option to boost our gunline armies.

[Honda]

This may be considered a dumb question, but I'm new, so "Hey".

 

If I took a Battalion of Templars and used their CTs on those units, but also took another formation (e.g. Spearhead detachment) would I be able to use IF CTs on the Spearhead?

 

I'm assuming that CTs apply to the formation based on it's keyword.

[LucidNinja]

This may be considered a dumb question, but I'm new, so "Hey".

 

If I took a Battalion of Templars and used their CTs on those units, but also took another formation (e.g. Spearhead detachment) would I be able to use IF CTs on the Spearhead?

 

I'm assuming that CTs apply to the formation based on it's keyword.

OK so I paused the video review at the right spot and it says if your army is battleforged you gain a chapter tactic for a detachment if all models are from the same chapter.

So yes, unless it's stated elsewhere of one tactic per army it would be like taking allies essentially

[HenricusTyranicus]

This may be considered a dumb question, but I'm new, so "Hey".

 

If I took a Battalion of Templars and used their CTs on those units, but also took another formation (e.g. Spearhead detachment) would I be able to use IF CTs on the Spearhead?

 

I'm assuming that CTs apply to the formation based on it's keyword.

I believe this is indeed the case.

[Kisada]

Frontline gaming has said that in the ITC if you plan on doing this then your detachments must be visually distinct so there is no confusion to your opponent which detachment a unit belongs to so there is no confusion as to which special rules a unit is using.

 

So if Honda's BT and IF are painted as standard colors. No problem in ITC.

 

If they're all painted as BT but Honda wants to use some of them as an IF detachment ... he needs to do something to differentiate between the BT Templars and the IF Templars (one suggestion they had was different color base rims)

[Firepower]

Frontline gaming has said that in the ITC if you plan on doing this then your detachments must be visually distinct so there is no confusion to your opponent which detachment a unit belongs to so there is no confusion as to which special rules a unit is using.

 

So if Honda's BT and IF are painted as standard colors. No problem in ITC.

 

If they're all painted as BT but Honda wants to use some of them as an IF detachment ... he needs to do something to differentiate between the BT Templars and the IF Templars (one suggestion they had was different color base rims)

 

Good policy, I think.

[Canadian_F_H]

Very good policy.

 

Alternatively if you ran a home brew chapter but wanted detatchments of different CTs, perhaps company markings would suffice? It's better than different base rungs anyway..

 

But I digress, my long term goal is to do exactly as Honda is by having some BTs, CFs and IFs. So they will be quite clearly differentiated.

[Verger]

You might want to have a hero near your Devastators as rerolling the misses increases the chances of your 6 to hit popping up.

I'm starting to get a "mobile" gunline feel from the Fists in this edition.  Ignoring cover is great, especially in a rules system that actively encourages it. It will benefit your assualt squads, too, as they can potentially chip off more wounds before the charge on an entrenched opponent.

[ak-73]

I think the only way the stratagem is worth it is possibly with Sternguard and you have to expend a second CP for that sweet bonus to wound. Quite honestly, I play my Crimson Fists around Kantor's bubbles rather than CT or stratagem, it's just more powerful. Kantor has up to 8 attacks (9 with librarian buff), that's pretty insane.

[Kisada]

In MWG's batrep with IF vs Necron ... he used Bolter Drill on his inceptors ... got 1 extra hit for 1 CP.  Didn't seem worthwhile

[anarchistscourge]

In MWG's batrep with IF vs Necron ... he used Bolter Drill on his inceptors ... got 1 extra hit for 1 CP.  Didn't seem worthwhile

 

Yeah but that was 1 time. I have cant even count how many times i roll and get no 6's. I think Bolter drill on inceptors would actually be a really good choice. but it is situational and you need alot of bolt ammo going down field to want to make use of this

[Extropian]

Bolter Drill is unreliable, but potentially devastating for 1 CP.

 

I would use it when i really want to maximise the odds of killing an important target. It increases your damage potential, but certainly should never be built around as a central tactic or battleplan.

 

Even the dakka-est of units, like Bolter Centurions or Aggressors, will USUALLY only score a few extra hits. But sometimes you just need that chance of extra damage, and mathematically it's better than a re-roll for 1 CP  (not that you'd normally re-roll a Bolt shot).

 

Also, i really wish it worked in Overwatch :(

[LucidNinja]

I think you really need to stack the cards to make it worthwhile also. Bolter centurions, near a captain with storm of fire and then that unit you need to kill. Might also be useful to kill that character you've finally got access to shoot at etc. I won't be planning to use it but will keep it in mind.