Advice vs IF that turned against us.

[Gendo]

I'm facing an IF player who's likely to bring 1 or 2 Stormravens and a mostly vehicle list.

Quick list overview: 

The below bunch are rolling around together getting rerolls and +1S from Helbrecht and Techmarine repairing the LRC. 

LRC fully loaded with MM and Hunter-killer missile. 
2x 7 man squads with 4 P.Swords and 2 Meltas, chainswords on others. 
Techmarine with Conversion Beamer and Axe 
Helbrecht with Combi-Melta 
The Emperor's Champion 

Drop Pod with Deathwind Launcher 
1x 5 man squad with MM, Melta, Combi-Melta 

The below Predator stays close to the Fist and Flamer from the Dreadnought as a deterrent to being charged or getting too close. 

Predator with 4 Lascannons 
Venerable Dreadnought with Twin Lascannon and Fist+H.flamer 

2 Rhinos with 2 S.Bolters each carrying: 
1x 9 man squad with Flamer and Axe on Sword Brother, 2 Boltguns and Chainswords 
1x 7 man squad with Flamer and Axe on Sword Brother, 2 Boltguns and Chainswords 
1 Chaplain 

The only units with no AA are the Rhinos and squads inside, should I swap the Flamers for Plasmas (worth it for maybe 1D?) I have Cenobytes in the list so i could drop them for extra 6 pts. 

So in total as dedicated multi wound AA I have: 
MM, 3 Meltas, Conversion Beamer and Hunter Missile all mostly rerolling because of Helbrecht. 
MM and 2 Meltas in Drop Pod 
4 Lascannons at BS 3+ 
2 Lascannons at BS 2+ 
Dreadnought Fist should they get close enough 
Plus 4 Power Swords at +1S should it come down to that 

Now, tactics wise, I don't know what he's carrying in the Stormraven on top of a Dreadnought so it's hard to guess where he wants to drop, most likely he wants to kill the Predator or the LRC as he can take care of Rhinos with something less committed. 
I've been going first in every match so far because of units deployed but unsure if this will be the case tomorrow, if so I plan in moving Helbrecht half way between the stationary Lascannons and the moved forward LRC to give all rerolls on BS2+ and 3+ and unload everything at the raven including the Conversion Beamer if I didn't need to advance with it. 
The Melta drop will wait for him to be in hover mode and then strike. 
Rhinos will try and move into a decent cover. 
And depending on what gets the heat first I could always move back the Techmarine to the Predator. 

So what do you think? enough punch? what about the tactic? 

 

I could drop the 2 Rhinos for 2 las Razorbacks and have 2 shooty squads (got no more meltas thought) with a variety of Gravs, Lascannon and Plasmas, drop the Chaplain as well for maybe another drop pod.

Feedback much appreciated as he needs to be shown some ZEAL!

 

Edited the BM out.

Edited July 23, 2017 by Gendo

[Gendo]

Brothers, this needs to be dealt with the Zeal only we have.

 

Edited direct quotes out.

Edited July 23, 2017 by Gendo

[Brother Talarian]

Sounds like an irritating player to play against. I wouldn't worry too much about cover, don't IF ignore it? I'be never played IF before, or seen them play, but I imagine you just want to get into his face asap. Like you mentioned, I'd wait to drop your melta drop pod as a counter deploy to delete a big baddy he brings as well.

 

As for his EC being pre-heresy etc.

 

You should slay his EC. Then say "That was no EC. You are the lesser chapter. You will be purged."

 

Your zeal and fury should be enough, brother.

The emperor protects his true sons.

 

Edit: to be fair I speak nonesense when I play as well sometimes... but by saying how annoying he is I imagine it's more than simple banter.

Edited July 22, 2017 by Brother Talarian

[Firepower]

Have you tried calling him a shmuck (or something properly scathing and spiteful) and playing someone fun instead?  Although I have a +2 to wound with my insults,* dunno how well that strategy would work for you.

 

*Nerdiest joke I've made in quite a long time

[Gendo]

Sounds like an irritating player to play against. I wouldn't worry too much about cover, don't IF ignore it? I'be never played IF before, or seen them play, but I imagine you just want to get into his face asap. Like you mentioned, I'd wait to drop your melta drop pod as a counter deploy to delete a big baddy he brings as well.

 

As for his EC being pre-heresy etc.

 

You should slay his EC. Then say "That was no EC. You are the lesser chapter. You will be purged."

 

Your zeal and fury should be enough, brother.

The emperor protects his true sons.

 

Edit: to be fair I speak nonesense when I play as well sometimes... but by saying how annoying he is I imagine it's more than simple banter.

 

Not playing the new rules yet so he doesn't ignore cover and my list isn't one to really waste time to get into it.

 

I think i was wrong about the Pod, he doesn't need to hover to drop his cargo so i better drop him asap even thought the meltas will be hitting on 5 and 4+, or just drop another tank and focus everything on the raven.

 

I kept up with the banter IRL for a bit but he's being really offensive and no smiles while delivering lines...

Edited July 23, 2017 by Gendo

[Brother Talarian]

Why do you still play with this gentlemen then if you don't mind my asking? Club rules - just swap? Or what? Either just try and ignore his banter, participate with the thought that he'a just RPing to the max or just tell him to :cuss off.

 

As for tactics you can always focus all your lascannons at the raven first then as well. And save the melta drop for the raven wreckage.

 

I took out an ork flyer with 2 rounds of three lascannon shots. So I'd say that's pretty solid.

[Lysere]

Honestly if possible cram some min sized crusaders with a Las cannon into some land raiders to get less drops, get out, fire everything, watch the birds die. Then slam Helbrecht and the champion into whatever he has for melee. If you have points left take some decent melee units that can also fit into the raiders.

 

I'm sure I could come up with a better left but that'd take time which I don't have at the moment.

[Medjugorje]

try that one when he comes near your Army^^

 

Imperium: Battalion Detachment - 1142 Punkte

***************  2 HQ  ***************  

High Marshal Helbrecht
 - - - > 170 Punkte

1 Primaris Lieutenant
- 1 x Power sword
 - - - > 74 Punkte


***************  3 Standard  ***************  

Crusader Squad
5 Initiates
- 2 x Boltgun + Bolt pistol
- Meltagun
- Multi-melta
+ Sword Brother
   - 1 x Bolt pistol
   - 1 x Combi-melta
 - - - > 128 Punkte

Crusader Squad
5 Initiates
- 2 x Boltgun + Bolt pistol
- Meltagun
- Multi-melta
+ Sword Brother
   - 1 x Bolt pistol
   - 1 x Combi-melta
 - - - > 128 Punkte

Crusader Squad
5 Initiates
- 2 x Boltgun + Bolt pistol
- Meltagun
- Multi-melta
+ Sword Brother
   - 1 x Chainsword
   - 1 x Combi-melta
 - - - > 128 Punkte


***************  1 Unterstützung  ***************  

Land Raider
- Hunter-killer missile
- Storm bolter
- Multi-melta
 - - - > 391 Punkte


***************  1 Transporter  ***************  

Razorback
- Twin lascannon
- Hunter-killer missile
- Storm bolter
 - - - > 123 Punkte



 

 

stay in the vehicles and when its your turn - take out your troops and kill him

[Ebon Hand]

Don't get mad at him. Maybe tease him with a little trash talk and smile. Be a gentleman, and show humility. Doing this will ensure you remain calm and can think clearly in battle. Show class even if he doesn't. Let your fury be on the table in your models.

 

You have a good game plan. Storm Ravens put out a lot of firepower, but their firepower are weakest against vehicles. I wouldn't even disembark the infantry until one of the stormravens is down. Play a takes and hold objective mission, I think it would be more fair.

 

Are you sure about the melta squad? I would maybe try Vanguard vet assault marines with thunder hammers.

[Castellan Doren]

Jump packs ignore the -1 to hit them.

 

Assault marines with eviscerators, melta bombs, and a chaplain w/ jp and meltabombs should nuke them while still flying in one turn.

 

Be polite but remind him, there's no walls to save him from this disrespect.

[Gendo]

Don't get mad at him. Maybe tease him with a little trash talk and smile. Be a gentleman, and show humility. Doing this will ensure you remain calm and can think clearly in battle. Show class even if he doesn't. Let your fury be on the table in your models.

 

You have a good game plan. Storm Ravens put out a lot of firepower, but their firepower are weakest against vehicles. I wouldn't even disembark the infantry until one of the stormravens is down. Play a takes and hold objective mission, I think it would be more fair.

 

Are you sure about the melta squad? I would maybe try Vanguard vet assault marines with thunder hammers.

 

That could be a solution with a unit I actually have, Vets are my latest unit but always failed the 9" charge and now use the claws in my Sword Brother slot with good success.

 

Could try and aim the Lascannons at the raven and then jump him, but better kill it in one turn with 3 hammers at 4+ (and 2 claws) or he'll fall back and shoot me, unless he deploys on an edge

 

That leaves me with enough points to drop 1 man from a Rhino squad and convert it into an AC Razorback plus a Boltgun and Heavy bolter squad on foot to maybe take objectives with. Or don't do that and just add a Las squad on foot.

 

Also swapping the fist on the Dreadnought for an Autocannon as if the bird is dead he's unlikely to charge into my deployment.

Edited July 23, 2017 by Gendo

[Ebon Hand]

Yeah those assault guys with 3 thunder hammers will put about 6 damage average on the Raven if they have a chaplain to give rerolls. I wouldn't try to assault it from deepstrike, your chances of making the 9 inch charge without our chapter tactic is pretty low and the Raven can overwatch pretty hard. You might have to anticipate where it will go and land there so you can use your high move to charge it.

[Gendo]

Just had the game and got shot off the table in 3 turns, this is how it went:

 

Starting with the building placement (by him before i arrived), I had no central cover but a clear path down the middle to funnel trough, on his side a large ruin with his bubble of death just staring down on me, good start.

 

Deployment:

I set up shop in the middle as he had ignore cover anyways with Helbrecht in between the Predator and LRC and a Las squad off my left in ruins with clear sight of the Raven.

He deployed a Primaris Rhino,a Las Predator, a Captain in Termi armour, Chapter Champion, 3 Las Centurions and 2 Marine squads all in the ruins getting the bubble and some cover. Raven off to my left behind ruins opposite mine with a squad with Heavy Bolter.

 

Turn 1

I start first and took some wounds off the Raven who was in cover from some of my weapons and decided that good rolls with the Vets would do the job and I actually made the charge as we decided to use the new CT, didn't do the job.

I wasn't in range of much else and took some wounds off his Predator thinking it was the Primaris instead...

His turn, 1 shot my LRC (Techmarine went back to the Predator then) and disembarked the EC and 2 squads towards his blob as it was within charge range, he fell back with the Raven after disembarking a Contemptor Dreadnought.

 

Turn 2

I disembark from 1 Rhino and finish the Raven off who surely explodes and kills 2 Initiates 1 wound goes to Chaplain before disembarking Cataphractii Termies, I charge the Termies and Chaplain kills 2, nice.

 

Long story short, the remaining Termies survive 2 waves of Crusaders and the Chaplain plus shooting at half range from 4 Storm Bolters.

The Dreadnought kills the Vets and then my Predator gets killed with a volley, Techmarine still empty handed.  

I manage to kill his Predator which again thought was the Primaris Rhino as i wanted to negate some buffs, charging Crusaders up front did well vs marines even without the Helbrecht bubble who was left behind and then got shot when out of combat.

His Chapter Champion manage to kill my EC immediately as he was left in the open when the squads got shot at, tried and avenge him with Helbrecht, killed him as well as i obviously rolled 1D out of 6 attacks, he then ignored all the Storm Bolters fire and the Techmarine's, needless to say he got killed as well immediately, :cuss.

 

Overall very bad game and to add to it all he killed 3 strong characters with his champion after getting all the trash talk about BT.

And yeah as discussed in another thread i really need some decent dice as i failed most hits, getting 1D with all the multi damage shots and failing pretty much all saves as well, while his throws were half 6s... so upset i wont play for a while.

[Marshal Haduwig]

Sorry to hear things went bad here. As a fellow roller of shoddy dice, I once rolled a selection of 20 dice and got 19 1's, only thing I can really suggest here is find someone actually fun to play against. This guy sounded like a bit of an arse which isn't going to help if you're just having a bad game. Find a player you can have fun against even if the dice are against you.

[Gendo]

Sorry to hear things went bad here. As a fellow roller of shoddy dice, I once rolled a selection of 20 dice and got 19 1's, only thing I can really suggest here is find someone actually fun to play against. This guy sounded like a bit of an arse which isn't going to help if you're just having a bad game. Find a player you can have fun against even if the dice are against you.

 

He's actually a nice guy just weird about banter i clearly don't enjoy.

Now that I'm out of my hangover he actually did a dick move, his raven was in a corner at 45 degree from the edge facing me, which means a 90 pivot would have shot him off the table, instead he pivoted more like 30 and came onto my tanks flank, could have hover which could also have changed the entire game.

On the basis that he surely knows his flyers and it was deliberate I wont play him again.

[Lysere]

I would've adjusted the terrain before the game to be more even from the start and if he argued I would've refused the game altogether.

 

Also I play against a couple people who suffer from bad dice so I can understand your pain on that front.