Wolf Guard loadouts

[Evilmerlin]

So now that it has been corrected. What's kind of loadout for Wolf Guards?

 

Jump Pack Wolf Guards 

I'm starting to come around to twin plasma pistols now that they can take it. Jump in, 2 plasma shots (same as comb-plasma) at range and if you get stuck in, you still get 2 plasma shots with them being pistols. It'll probably be cheaper than the plasma armed Inceptors though not as survivable. Don't think I'll give the squad any storm shields though. 

 

Biker Wolf Guards

Now that they can't carry a storm shield and 2 weapons, I'm beginning to think that not every one of them needs a Storm Shield. 2 shields in a 5 men squad looks about right. I think I'll kit the bikers out as a tough mobile fire base with combi-plasmas.

Terminator Wolf Guards

Ooh boy! Storm Shield and range weapon! It's really sexy but I'm not sure how useful it'll be. I think these guys will probably still end up being geared for CC.

[Nharvey89]

For my WG jump packs in gunna convert them, for the third time, to now be combi plasma, SS. With the fly key word thinking keep them a mobile shooty force, if they get locked in combat they can fall back and still shoot.

[Deadnaughty]

Bikers depends on how you want to run them. Either shooty with Combi/stormbolter and SS or bashy with Frost Sword + SS.

 

You can run a limited set of SS but remember that you have to take wounds on an already wounded model.

[DanPesci]

Cool thread, having my first BIG game of 8th in a couple weeks, and looking to run a combined admech/wolves list, with my wolves contingent being mainly WG and dreads.

 

Am deffo wanting to try some dakka jump WG armed with a ton of stormbolters, then backed up by bikers and WGTDA bringing the plasma (whilst my admech provide the long range punch).

 

For me id think that the SS cost are only really worth it on the 2 wound models (so termies and bikers). Thinking to keep both fairly shooty but with a sprinkling of power weapons. SomMaybe 2 SS per sqad.

 

 

Has anyone tried running just bare bones WG in a razorback? (maybe with a coupe combiweapons). Wondering how well they perform compared to putting GH/BC in there? Are they worth the extra few points (fluffwise im wanting to build a small, 'elite' lost company, theres nothing simply stopping me using grey hunters, but WG seem more thematic to me.)

Edited July 24, 2017 by DanPesci

[wulfgar hammerfist]

I will continue to run my WG packs, both biker and jump pack, as mobile fire support. The change doesn't really effect how I currently employ them. I don't run much assault in my lists but I may build a frost sword/SS biker pack for that role. I don't put shields on one wound models though as it seems a waste.

[Nharvey89]

I have found as a rule if it can take a SS in 8th take it, with so many weapons reducing save even a little it has proved invaluable and at only 5 points not too bad. My mate plays tank heavy guard and watching shots bounce off my SS brings me great joy.

[Gherrick]

I have found as a rule if it can take a SS in 8th take it, with so many weapons reducing save even a little it has proved invaluable and at only 5 points not too bad. My mate plays tank heavy guard and watching shots bounce off my SS brings me great joy.

Pure truth.

[Evilmerlin]

I'm liking that idea of a CC orientated Biker squad with SS and Frost weapon. You still get a decent shooty element with the twin bolters so they can thin out hordes and you get a pretty hard hitting CC unit.

 

Shooty Jump Packers are another nice one! I totally forgot that Jump Packs can fall back and still shoot. That would indeed be perfect for them then. Still not all that convinced by Storm Shields on 1 wound models though. I think keep it cheap and just give them combi-plasmas and chainsword.

Edited July 24, 2017 by Evilmerlin

[Freman Bloodglaive]

I'd say frost claws paired with storm shields on bikes. Combi-Plasma/chainsword on jump packs, the single wound means it's not worth investing too much in keeping them alive. Terminators, my old metal ones are all storm bolter and frost claw, as back then it was a cheap shooty loadout, but if I were making new ones it'd be a mix of claw/combi-weapon, and storm shield/thunder hammer.

[DanPesci]

Wondering last night on the CP/CS vs PP/PP on jump pack wolf guard.

 

twin PP is 1 point cheaper (from what i could see), yet you lose the attack for the CS, if they do end up in a CC. (although i cant see many folk choosing to charge that much plasma in overwatch)

 

However.... having the extra attack from the CS isnt necessarily a good thing as it could mean you kill off the unit you charged, which leaves  you open to shooting in your opponents turn, whereas if you stay in the combat, you can still choose to fall back in your opponents turn...and then shoot again cos of your jump pack.

 

All very hypothetical i know....

 

Think what im goiing to try run is 

 

WG bikes - CC (with SS)

WG jump Pack - twin PP mega death

WG TDA - mix of shooty and CC support (with SS)

WGPL with jump pack or TDA to come in and provide rerolls to the JP/TDA guys.

Edited July 25, 2017 by DanPesci

[Gherrick]

The biggest difference between CP and PP is the longer range of the CP. On a bike, a CP has the same range as the twin bolters, so I think it makes more sense to use those instead of twin PP. On a jump pack, you can deep strike within 12" of your target, so twin PP makes more sense there.

[Deadnaughty]

I think 'dont kill to many so you stay locked in combat and dont get shot' is not much of a consideration this edition.

 

imo there are two situation. One in which the enemy has strong combat unit nearby, in which case they will charge and wipe your unit. Or two, they have strong shooting nearby, in which case they will simply fall back and shoot you dead.

If neither situation is present you would have been fine with wiping the unit, and your probably winning already.

 

The ability for every unit to fall back really changed the way you should approach close combat.

[Gemini]

2 WEEKS AGO I BROKE 5 JUMP PACK WOLF GUARD WITH GUNSLINGER PLASMA PISTOLS TO DO COMBI-PLAS... 

Ok... balance that with the other 15 (10 on bikes, 5 more jump pack) that DIDN'T get weapons glued on yet...

 

Sigh

[Wolf Guard Dan]

I am disappointed with the FAQ changes in regards to WG loadout. We need something to differentiate ourselves from veteran squads of other chapters.

 

I always magnetize any Wolf Guard unit. It's a pain initially and especially when I eventually find a load out I like and use for years at a time. Still worth it.

 

WG Jump packs: I currently don't have any so I won't comment on a loadout. As a shooty unit I think they are outdone by Tempest Command Squads that can deep strike with plasma in for way less points and only a little less survivable. WG jumpers can do more if they survive your opponents rebuttal or if they make that 10/36 chance for a charge after they drop. With good play and LoS blocking terrain WG jumpers can be pretty good though.

 

WG Bikers: I still like them as a shooty support unit. For me the melee weapon was just icing on the cake that probably won't make a huge difference to me. I think storm shields and a combi weapon paired with the twin bolter from the bike makes a good fast, sturdy support unit. Ditching a couple storm shields for melee weapons isn't a terrible idea either. Depends on what you want for the unit. I think they're the real winners of WG packs.

 

TDAWG: Haven't had a chance to use them yet. I think I like them better as a melee unit. Wolf Claws and WC+SS for these guys. Like all TDA, they don't do enough volume of damage to justify their points cost though. Also as a shooty unit they are outdone by Tempest Command Squads. Command squads are just so much cheaper.

 

I know some people won't field Tempest Command Squads and that's fine. But as an Imperium army we literally have 300+ unit choices that our units compete against.

[Valerian]

What is a Tempest Command Squad?

[Deadnaughty]

What is a Tempest Command Squad?

Imperial Guard (astra militarium) Tempestus Sion command Squad. 4 deepstriking plasma guns that hit on 3+ for 64 points plus 40 points Tempestus Prime tax that gives you re-rolls from his order.

[Valerian]

Gotcha.

[Wolf Guard Dan]

Didn't want my initial post to sound whiny (not that anyone claimed it was). In a highly-competitive environment where I am at there are just more efficient units being out there competing for certain roles. That's why my response was framed in that context.

 

Although loadouts are important I think it is also important to discuss battlefield roles too.

 

WG jumpers- good backfield harassers. Good at grabbing objectives in maelstrom too. Just don't bite off more than you can chew. Combis/Storm bolters, a few shields, a few melee weapons.

 

WG Bikes- Good support unit for thinning out hordes. Good at grabbing objectives although less so than jumpers. Sturdy. Combis/stormbolters, shields, a few melee weapons maybe.

 

WG Terminators. More of an anvil unit. They need a good "hammer unit" to accompany them. Arjac is almost a must for an assaulting unit. Still like Wolf Claws.

[TheWolfLord]

I still think there's mileage in Storm Bolter and Chainsword Wolf Guard. Both Jump Pack and Biker squads can put out a lot of shots for a very reasonable cost and can follow up with 15 attacks on the charge.

 

Do we have any better value anti horde units?

[Evilmerlin]

I am disappointed with the FAQ changes in regards to WG loadout. We need something to differentiate ourselves from veteran squads of other chapters.

 

I always magnetize any Wolf Guard unit. It's a pain initially and especially when I eventually find a load out I like and use for years at a time. Still worth it.

 

WG Jump packs: I currently don't have any so I won't comment on a loadout. As a shooty unit I think they are outdone by Tempest Command Squads that can deep strike with plasma in for way less points and only a little less survivable. WG jumpers can do more if they survive your opponents rebuttal or if they make that 10/36 chance for a charge after they drop. With good play and LoS blocking terrain WG jumpers can be pretty good though.

 

WG Bikers: I still like them as a shooty support unit. For me the melee weapon was just icing on the cake that probably won't make a huge difference to me. I think storm shields and a combi weapon paired with the twin bolter from the bike makes a good fast, sturdy support unit. Ditching a couple storm shields for melee weapons isn't a terrible idea either. Depends on what you want for the unit. I think they're the real winners of WG packs.

 

TDAWG: Haven't had a chance to use them yet. I think I like them better as a melee unit. Wolf Claws and WC+SS for these guys. Like all TDA, they don't do enough volume of damage to justify their points cost though. Also as a shooty unit they are outdone by Tempest Command Squads. Command squads are just so much cheaper.

 

I know some people won't field Tempest Command Squads and that's fine. But as an Imperium army we literally have 300+ unit choices that our units compete against.

As it stands now, we don't have a chapter tactic to make use of the Space Wolves keyword and thus it does make sense to make an "Imperium" army and cherry pick the best each faction has to offer. But that might change once we see what our codex offers, whenever that arrives...

 

 

 

I still think there's mileage in Storm Bolter and Chainsword Wolf Guard. Both Jump Pack and Biker squads can put out a lot of shots for a very reasonable cost and can follow up with 15 attacks on the charge.

Do we have any better value anti horde units?

 

That's the rub though, taking a combi-weapon sacrifices 4 bolter shots (per model) for the flexibility of the combi-weapon. Makes sense to take a stormbolter if all you plan for them is anti-hordes which I personally think is kinda wasted on them. When you factor in the other marines with bolters in your army, you should have plenty of bolter shots to spread around and shouldn't need a dedicated unit for it. But I must admit that it is super fun to tell your opponent that the 5 men squad will now roll 40 dice in shooting and then 30 attacks in CC to finish off whatever is left standing....

 

Edited July 26, 2017 by Evilmerlin

[Evilmerlin]

Wondering last night on the CP/CS vs PP/PP on jump pack wolf guard.

 

twin PP is 1 point cheaper (from what i could see), yet you lose the attack for the CS, if they do end up in a CC. (although i cant see many folk choosing to charge that much plasma in overwatch)

 

However.... having the extra attack from the CS isnt necessarily a good thing as it could mean you kill off the unit you charged, which leaves  you open to shooting in your opponents turn, whereas if you stay in the combat, you can still choose to fall back in your opponents turn...and then shoot again cos of your jump pack.

 

All very hypothetical i know....

 

Think what im goiing to try run is 

 

WG bikes - CC (with SS)

WG jump Pack - twin PP mega death

WG TDA - mix of shooty and CC support (with SS)

WGPL with jump pack or TDA to come in and provide rerolls to the JP/TDA guys.

Don't forget that you still get to shoot your pistols in CC. So you aren't actually losing that much. So when you're stuck in CC, you get 2 shots from the pistols AND the 2 regular attacks. Which actually is better than a Combi-plasma and Chain sword since all 3 attacks in CC are done at S4 whilst the pistols are resolved at S7, you can even overcharge if you're feeling particularly brave or have a buffer nearby.

[TheWolfLord]

We have no cheaper anti horde unit though. 10 Grey Hunters cost 25 points more than Jump Pack Wolf Guard with Storm Bolters and put out the same number of shots and only 5 more attacks.

 

The Wolf Guard don't need a transport option either.

 

They are half as survivable as the only downside.

 

It's not a waste of Wolf Guard if they are the most cost efficient in that role.

[Gherrick]

You also have the option of giving a couple WG a SS in the off chance a high AP attack is directed their way...

[Deadnaughty]

 

I am disappointed with the FAQ changes in regards to WG loadout. We need something to differentiate ourselves from veteran squads of other chapters.

 

I always magnetize any Wolf Guard unit. It's a pain initially and especially when I eventually find a load out I like and use for years at a time. Still worth it.

 

WG Jump packs: I currently don't have any so I won't comment on a loadout. As a shooty unit I think they are outdone by Tempest Command Squads that can deep strike with plasma in for way less points and only a little less survivable. WG jumpers can do more if they survive your opponents rebuttal or if they make that 10/36 chance for a charge after they drop. With good play and LoS blocking terrain WG jumpers can be pretty good though.

 

WG Bikers: I still like them as a shooty support unit. For me the melee weapon was just icing on the cake that probably won't make a huge difference to me. I think storm shields and a combi weapon paired with the twin bolter from the bike makes a good fast, sturdy support unit. Ditching a couple storm shields for melee weapons isn't a terrible idea either. Depends on what you want for the unit. I think they're the real winners of WG packs.

 

TDAWG: Haven't had a chance to use them yet. I think I like them better as a melee unit. Wolf Claws and WC+SS for these guys. Like all TDA, they don't do enough volume of damage to justify their points cost though. Also as a shooty unit they are outdone by Tempest Command Squads. Command squads are just so much cheaper.

 

I know some people won't field Tempest Command Squads and that's fine. But as an Imperium army we literally have 300+ unit choices that our units compete against.

As it stands now, we don't have a chapter tactic to make use of the Space Wolves keyword and thus it does make sense to make an "Imperium" army and cherry pick the best each faction has to offer. But that might change once we see what our codex offers, whenever that arrives...

Imperium cherry picking won't go away with the codexes tho. Its easy to unlock detachments for specific armies and run multiple 'pure' detachments.

I'm currently fiddling around with a core SW Vanguard, a Guard Spearhead for Scion Command squads and Heavy Weapon Mortar teams and a SoB patrol for Celestine, minimum sister squad and a unit of Retributors.

 

Being able to cherry pick point effective units remains really strong and the only unwanted 'tax' I pay is 5 SoB's

[Karhedron]

OK, so my question is, what do I do with bikers?

 

I have half a dozen unbuilt bikers as well as plenty of spare parts from the SW sprues. I also have an unbuilt Chaplain on bike who could easily be wolfed up as a Wolf Priest.

 

So how do I built them? Storm bolters look tempting as 180 points gets me 40 bolter shots on a fast-moving platform. But what about CC? If I build a Wolf Priest on bike, I will be wasting half his special rules if I just patch up the occasional wound. He really wants to be leading the squad into melee so they can reroll with those tasty weapons. And what about Storm shields?

 

Maybe I should just magnetise them so I can run a shooty squad but then swap out the storm bolters for assorted power weapons and storm shields when they are led the Priest.

 

I don't plan to get any TWC as they are expensive whereas I have the bike models in my bits box so if I do a close combat unit, they would be instead of TWC as a fast moving hammer.