Primaris Anti-Armour Options

[Death Dealer 101]

What/how have people been doing/dealing with enemy tanks, flyers and monsters in Primaris armies or majority primaris armies?

 

 

The vast amount of units, guns and equipment so far has been mainly anti-infantry. Over charging plasma can work at a pinch but doesn’t substitute for big multi-wound weapons at long range.

 

 

The repulser tank can rock triple lascannons but I assume its points cost will limit how many you can field and sitting back and shooting lascannons seems a waste when you probably have tasty plasmaguns inside.

 

 

Thoughts?

 

 

[ronin_cse]

 

What/how have people been doing/dealing with enemy tanks, flyers and monsters in Primaris armies or majority primaris armies?

 

 

The vast amount of units, guns and equipment so far has been mainly anti-infantry. Over charging plasma can work at a pinch but doesn’t substitute for big multi-wound weapons at long range.

 

 

The repulser tank can rock triple lascannons but I assume its points cost will limit how many you can field and sitting back and shooting lascannons seems a waste when you probably have tasty plasmaguns inside.

 

 

Thoughts?

 

 

 

 

Other than the Repulser there really isn't a ranged anti armor options when going pure Primaris. I would say that at a minimum you would want to sprinkle in something like a predator

[Hopper21]

I'm having same issue, has anyone seen the points value for new repulsor kitted out?

[Prot]

I sense a large Primaris flyer in the future but for now all I can add is perhaps the overcharged macroplasma thing on the Redemptor. D6 shots and an aura near by for insurance. I have used the Helblasters overcharged in desperate times for lower end vehicles.

 

It's really surprising that the Primaris don't really have specialized weapons. Just rehashed old stuff. Nothing remotely like Grav, or Melta

[Death Dealer 101]

The Repulsor could have been a bit more viable if it had less weapons and you could run it with just lascannons pumping out 4 shots, but with transport capacity and the other weapons the points go up most likey too high.

 

Guess we wait and see what other primaris units come out. We know there will be inceptor and intersessor multi part squads sometime soon as per the codex. After that there might be some new stuff after some other codex get their releases.

[Brother Captain Sirus]

A repulsor with both lascannon options and cheaspest options in all other slots is 28 points cheaper than a standard land raider, so you wont be able to field many of them and with it only being 4 shots its expensive as an anti tank option, probably better to see what Primaris will be given in the future for dedicated anti tank

[Death Dealer 101]

Yeah just short of a raider probably seems fair, it pretty much is one. With Primaris having so many low strength single damage many shot weapons I imagine GW has something planned.

[Seahawk]

Hellblasters are the best and pretty much only worthwhile dedicated AT unit.

[Extropian]

Hellblasters aren't dedicated AT, their guns are too low on damage. Good at busting the armour part, but it takes a lot of shots to actually drop a vehicle at range. 

 

5 Hellblasters with normal incinerators only averages 2 wounds against a T7 3+ save vehicle. 4 if overcharged. That's not that much given their cost and the overcharge risks (though that can be minimised fairly easily), outside of rapid fire range. Inside is much better of course, but thats quite a hard task for your dedicated AT unit to pull off.

 

For reference, a 5 man Dev squad with 4 lascannons will do 5, and thats not including the +1 to hit from the Sarge.

 

Put simply, outside the Repuslor (which is too expensive to provide that much firepower), Primaris have no good anti-vehicle weaponry right now. Or at least no efficient weaponry. You certainly CAN spam plasma until they die, but it's SO many points to get enough.

Edited July 26, 2017 by Extropian

[Brother Captain Sirus]

Alternatively a unit of centurians wouldnt look out of place with them, so you could take them if it was a model size issue rather than a fluff one

[Extropian]

Alternatively a unit of centurians wouldnt look out of place with them, so you could take them if it was a model size issue rather than a fluff one

 

That works. Crtainly Centurions are far better AT than any Primaris option, though expensive of course.

 

Personally, i'm just going to erly on a Predator or two for now.

[TrexPushups]

I'm thinking of trying out a pair of vindicator laser destroyers or one and a Repulser.

 

T8 and 184 is a solid price point for the nastiness it puts down the field.

[Extropian]

Yep. Those things are killers and no mistake.

[Sugarlessllama]

I have been having a lot of luck with my centurions vs. armor. Them boob missiles wreck tanks.

[LucidNinja]

Maybe fortifications? A couple of tarantulas with las are cheap and not normarines, the heavy hellblasters are strength 9 so that's also an option or the redemptor macro plasma. I'll be running a pure primaris army and I know I'll struggle against high toughness for now

[TrexPushups]

Maybe fortifications? A couple of tarantulas with las are cheap and not normarines, the heavy hellblasters are strength 9 so that's also an option or the redemptor macro plasma. I'll be running a pure primaris army and I know I'll struggle against high toughness for now

It isn't the high toughness that is the problem. It is the high wound counts.

 

2 damage weapons just don't do enough.

[Death Dealer 101]

Yeah when theres things with over 10 wounds you can't be chipping away for too long.

 

Starting a new army so don't really want to be doubling up on vehicles and units I have from other armies. Might need some converted not primaris primaris things such as Agressor centurions or Quad lascannon Repulssor

[Seahawk]

Take a squad of 10 with assault (for more lower strength shots) or heavy (for higher strength) plasma incinerators and stick a character with them for rerolls. That's a potential of up to 40 wounds on a vehicle and they won't get saves...how is that not AT?

 

Thing is, it's the only unit that can put out a high amount of damage in the Primaris arsenal, so realistically if you want good AT in a primaris army, you will have to take non-primaris units to do it.

[Extropian]

As mentioned, its not that it can't do AT. Its that its not all that efficient.

 

Those 10 Hellblasters can do damage against a T7, 3+ save vehicle for sure. Even without a character they average 13 wounds, which will mess up a Rhino/Predator or something. But thats 24" range, and a Rhino or Predator isnt really heavy armour....never has been.

 

That same unit will do about 7 wounds to a Land Raider (and 3 to itself) unless you add a character. With a Captain nearby it ups it to 8 wounds (and removes most of the self damage).

That's 250+ points for a short range unit that will kill half a Land Raider/Monolith, and much less of a Knight.

 

Sure, it does damage. But its definitely not an efficient use of 1/6-1/8 of your army. And thats assuming you can somehow get all 10 up close without losing any.

 

Lascannon Devastators for reference do just over a wound each against a Raider at twice the range, for 28pts per model, with no re-rolls.

 

So i disagree with your first part about the Hellblasters being AT, but agree with your second part that Primaris have no good AT. Yet. I have no doubt at all that something will be coming....Hellblasters with lastalons anyone? (joke, that'd be broken as anything).

[TrexPushups]

As mentioned, its not that it can't do AT. Its that its not all that efficient.

 

Those 10 Hellblasters can do damage against a T7, 3+ save vehicle for sure. Even without a character they average 13 wounds, which will mess up a Rhino/Predator or something. But thats 24" range, and a Rhino or Predator isnt really heavy armour....never has been.

 

That same unit will do about 7 wounds to a Land Raider (and 3 to itself) unless you add a character. With a Captain nearby it ups it to 8 wounds (and removes most of the self damage).

That's 250+ points for a short range unit that will kill half a Land Raider/Monolith, and much less of a Knight.

 

Sure, it does damage. But its definitely not an efficient use of 1/6-1/8 of your army. And thats assuming you can somehow get all 10 up close without losing any.

 

Lascannon Devastators for reference do just over a wound each against a Raider at twice the range, for 28pts per model, with no re-rolls.

 

So i disagree with your first part about the Hellblasters being AT, but agree with your second part that Primaris have no good AT. Yet. I have no doubt at all that something will be coming....Hellblasters with lastalons anyone? (joke, that'd be broken as anything).

Something feels off about your math.

 

Hellblasters firing in overcharge mode never do 7 damage.

 

They do 2 damage per shot so how did you get 7?

[Extropian]

 

As mentioned, its not that it can't do AT. Its that its not all that efficient.

 

Those 10 Hellblasters can do damage against a T7, 3+ save vehicle for sure. Even without a character they average 13 wounds, which will mess up a Rhino/Predator or something. But thats 24" range, and a Rhino or Predator isnt really heavy armour....never has been.

 

That same unit will do about 7 wounds to a Land Raider (and 3 to itself) unless you add a character. With a Captain nearby it ups it to 8 wounds (and removes most of the self damage).

That's 250+ points for a short range unit that will kill half a Land Raider/Monolith, and much less of a Knight.

 

Sure, it does damage. But its definitely not an efficient use of 1/6-1/8 of your army. And thats assuming you can somehow get all 10 up close without losing any.

 

Lascannon Devastators for reference do just over a wound each against a Raider at twice the range, for 28pts per model, with no re-rolls.

 

So i disagree with your first part about the Hellblasters being AT, but agree with your second part that Primaris have no good AT. Yet. I have no doubt at all that something will be coming....Hellblasters with lastalons anyone? (joke, that'd be broken as anything).

Something feels off about your math.

 

Hellblasters firing in overcharge mode never do 7 damage.

 

They do 2 damage per shot so how did you get 7?

 

 

Its an average, which is useful for comparison purposes.

 

10 hellblasters = 20 shots. 

20 shots = 13.33 hits

13 hits = 4.44 wounds

4.44 wounds = 3.7 unsaved wounds

2 damage per wound = 7.4, and i rounded to nearest full figure.

 

Of course you can't literally do 7 wounds in 1 volley. But fire X volleys and the average will be 7.4 over that X, assuming the sample size is reasonable.

 

Its worth noting that this isnt the only worthwhile measurement of effectiveness mind you, its just the one i use because its simple and provides an easy benchmark.

Edited July 27, 2017 by Extropian

[Prot]

As mentioned, its not that it can't do AT. Its that its not all that efficient.

 

/Snip

 

So i disagree with your first part about the Hellblasters being AT, but agree with your second part that Primaris have no good AT. Yet. I have no doubt at all that something will be coming....Hellblasters with lastalons anyone? (joke, that'd be broken as anything).

 

I agree with the core of what you're saying.

 

Now trying to work around that core in the least awkward of ways, I plan on putting Helblasters in a  Repulsor  with Lascannons. The range of the Repulsor  cannons combined with the range of the Helblaster -may- have some significant impact against armour.

 

Conversely I don't think a Repulsor with the Agressors can have the same impact. 

[Extropian]

I agree. Repulsor and Hellblasters are definitely the best option right now if sticking to pure Primaris. It's not great for efficiency, but it can get the job done in a "keep hammering something and eventually it'll break" kind of way.

 

I'm probably just going to stick in a couple of Vindicator Laser Destroyers. Sexy AND effective ;)

[arisen]

Smack it with a redemptor dread? That, and repulsor las are the only weapons I'd consider anti-tank in a pure primaris army.

 

Luckily, a land raider won't look out of place among primaris, and we're the only chapter to be blessed with the terminus ultra which brings 8 lascannon shots to the table on a LR chassis that only costs 200pts, and it can't transport anything, so you're not wasting any transport space by not transporting anything.

[Extropian]

400 with guns though, so it's not cheap, and it'll blow up pretty fast due to being an insane bullet magnet.

 

However, it's certainly and unarguably the deadliest Marine anti-tank option short of a Falchion, and no mistake. 400pts of "Delete vehicle of choice".