Making Guard Fun

[TheShredder]

I'm looking for suggestions for how to make my IG more fun to play against.

 

At the moment, I use an army that's almost entirely infantry (with a few Sentinels), and being led by St. Celestine or a Canoness.

 

It does very well, but doesn't seem very fun to play against.

 

Is there anything I could do to make my army more fun?

[Minsc]

Drop St. Celestine.

When you say "almost entirely" infantry, what's the exception, and what's the infantry?

Are you using wonky stuff like Ogryns/Bullgryns?

[Galron]

Don't use conscripts.

Leave your deployment zone no one ever expects you to

Use Scions to screw with your opponent

Mortars are fun for everyone

Invest in bigger guns

Drop the special character, likely she wont help you much when we get a codex anyway

[WarriorFish]

Fun is a relative term somewhat, a lot depends on various things. For example if you're standing and shooting that's a bit boring - but that also depends on what your opponent is doing also as something that's the best thing to do (if your opponent wants you to sacrifice games for his fun, then he deserves none!). Mixing things up will help as running an X heavy list can get a little stale.

 

As Galron suggests you can spice things up with different infantry, but there's always the option of some additional armour to make things different. Perhaps some artillery so you can make an artillery company? Gets a different army play style but lets you make use of your infantry :)

[TheShredder]

Drop St. Celestine.

 

:'(

 

 

When you say "almost entirely" infantry, what's the exception, and what's the infantry?

 

Are you using wonky stuff like Ogryns/Bullgryns?

 

The exception is the sentinels I mentioned (which I've run as Armoured Sentinels with Lascannons and Scout Sentinels with Heavy Flamers). In terms of the infantry, perhaps it would be easiest to show you a couple of my lists as examples? Here are my two most recent lists:

 

1500pt List:

Brigade

Zuriel, Angel of Silence (Saint Celestine) – 150

Company Commander – 30

Company Commander – 30

Company Commander – 30

Company Commander – 30

Commissar – 31

Commissar – 31

Commissar – 31

Infantry squad w/ Lascannon, Plasmagun – 67

Infantry squad w/ Lascannon, Plasmagun – 67

Infantry squad w/ Lascannon, Plasmagun – 67

Infantry squad w/ Missile Launcher, Plasmagun – 67

Infantry squad w/ Missile Launcher, Plasmagun – 67

Infantry squad w/ Missile Launcher, Plasmagun – 67

Infantry Squad w/ Flamer – 47

Infantry Squad w/ Flamer – 47

Infantry Squad w/ Flamer – 47

Militarum Tempestus Scions w/ 2 Plasmaguns, Tempestor w/ Plasma Pistol – 66

Militarum Tempestus Scions w/ 2 Plasmaguns, Tempestor w/ Plasma Pistol – 66

Armoured Sentinel w/ Lascannon – 60

Armoured Sentinel w/ Lascannon – 60

Armoured Sentinel w/ Lascannon – 60

Armoured Sentinel w/ Lascannon – 60

HWS w/ 3x Heavy Bolter – 36

HWS w/ 3x Heavy Bolter – 36

HWS w/ 3x Heavy Bolter – 36

1500 (12CP)

 

1000pt list:

Brigade

Canoness w/ Eviscerator, Combi-Plasma – 82

Company Commander – 30

Company Commander – 30

Commissar w/ Plasma Pistol – 35

Commissar w/ Plasma Pistol – 35

4 Crusaders – 60

Infantry squad w/ Lascannon, Plasmagun – 67

Infantry squad w/ Lascannon, Plasmagun – 67

Infantry squad w/ Meltagun – 52

Infantry squad w/ Meltagun – 52

Infantry Squad w/ Flamer – 47

Infantry Squad w/ Flamer – 47

Militarum Tempestus Scions w/ 2 Plasmaguns, Tempestor w/ Plasma Pistol – 66

Militarum Tempestus Scions w/ 2 Plasmaguns, Tempestor w/ Plasma Pistol – 66

Scout Sentinel w/ Heavy Flamer – 52

Scout Sentinel w/ Heavy Flamer – 52

Scout Sentinel w/ Heavy Flamer – 52

HWS w/ 3x Heavy Bolter – 36

HWS w/ 3x Heavy Bolter – 36

HWS w/ 3x Heavy Bolter – 36

1000 (12CP)

 

I've been trying to build my army as pseudo-platoons with a few extras. For example, my first list effectively has 3 platoons, each with a Commissar, a Company Commander, 3 Infantry squads, a Heavy Weapon Squad and a Scout Sentinel. I've then got a Living Saint as my leader (partially because I have a conversion that I really want to use and partially because I find the IG HQs functional but really dull), along with an extra Company Commander. And finally there are the Scion squads (I did consider one per platoon, but having 3 of them felt like overkill).

 

 

 

Don't use conscripts.

Leave your deployment zone no one ever expects you to

Use Scions to screw with your opponent

Mortars are fun for everyone

Invest in bigger guns

Drop the special character, likely she wont help you much when we get a codex anyway

 

 

Could you perhaps elaborate on the highlighted parts?

[Halfpint100]

Bigger guns -> basilisks. Manicores, russes.

[duz_]

There's also this thread too where a very similar question was asked recently

 

http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/topic/336865-making-guard-fun/ 

[TheShredder]

Bigger guns -> basilisks. Manicores, russes.

 

Are they really considered fun? 

 

 

There's also this thread too where a very similar question was asked recently

 

http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/topic/336865-making-guard-fun/ 

 

Ah, thank you. I'll give that a look as well.

[Galron]

Basilisks, earthshaker platform batteries, hydras, medusas, griffins, and my favorite from way back, BOMBARDS :)

 

Scions are great for when either the opponent is pushing forward at you but has left stuff in his back field that needs to die. Using scions and aircraft mounted infantry a few games ago, my guard and his bugs completely swapped deployment zones. Scions and troops cleared his zone at the same time he was clearing mine. But I still had ranged weapons on the vultures and he had very little. Also good for solving problems that everyone else is too busy to take care of. I haven't dropped the scions first turn yet this edition, they make great troubleshooters.

 

Celestine in addition to being a special character(Boo) if the marines codex is a sign of things to come, the Imperial soup thing will die(finally) as you gain better benefits from having pure detachments of a single chapter/regiment

[Halfpint100]

Personally i love the big guns, I have magnetised my manticore so i can remove the missiles as i shoot them. Big guns just look good and reminds me of old war style of infantry moving forward under the cover of artillery 

[TheShredder]

Celestine in addition to being a special character(Boo) if the marines codex is a sign of things to come, the Imperial soup thing will die(finally) as you gain better benefits from having pure detachments of a single chapter/regiment

 

Well, I can always take her in a separate detachment (even if it costs me a Command Point).

 

That said, one of the main reasons I'm taking her at the moment is that I find the IG HQs monumentally dull. If the IG Codex fixes that then I might not need her anymore. 

Edited July 25, 2017 by TheShredder

[Galron]

Whats so dull about a Commander with a powerfist and a plasma pistol(my warlord)? Salt of the earth, boy. We don't need any fancy shmancy special characters to be successful, just a 30 point dude with a chainsword and laspistol will do the job of yelling at the gunners to "keep up the fire" just fine. Ours are support characters not showboat spotlight rangers like everyone else's.

[Sawtooth]

You can also be extremely aggressive with guard. People get complacent sometimes and expect you to just bombard them, they don't always expect a demolisher spearheading an infantry column into an objective, or an actual bayonet charge. Think about ways to use orders creatively and unexpectedly, I think they're one of the most fun aspects of the army.

 

As for characters, what makes them interesting to me is that they're just normal humans. I don't know if you write back stories for your army, try naming your officers, giving them personalities. My guare aren't led by generic officer, they're led by Colonel Solomon who has a long and storied history. Every battle is another chapter in it.

[TheShredder]

Whats so dull about a Commander with a powerfist and a plasma pistol(my warlord)? Salt of the earth, boy. We don't need any fancy shmancy special characters to be successful, just a 30 point dude with a chainsword and laspistol will do the job of yelling at the gunners to "keep up the fire" just fine. Ours are support characters not showboat spotlight rangers like everyone else's.

 

What's dull is that there's nothing to them. They're functional, don't get me wrong, but they're too dime-a-dozen for my taste. It's the same issue I have with DE HQs - they don't have any fun abilities or interesting wargear. The only customisation is in what weapon you give them.

 

Now, that's fine for most of my HQs, but I just like having something a bit more fun as my Warlord.

 

 

You can also be extremely aggressive with guard. People get complacent sometimes and expect you to just bombard them, they don't always expect a demolisher spearheading an infantry column into an objective, or an actual bayonet charge. Think about ways to use orders creatively and unexpectedly, I think they're one of the most fun aspects of the army.

 

Okay, I'll see if I can do a more melee-oriented guard.

 

 

 

As for characters, what makes them interesting to me is that they're just normal humans. 

 

As above, that just does for others.

 

 

 

I don't know if you write back stories for your army, try naming your officers, giving them personalities. My guare aren't led by generic officer, they're led by Colonel Solomon who has a long and storied history. Every battle is another chapter in it.

 

That's the thing though, whatever backstories and personalities I give my officers are completely undermined by their mechanics. 

 

"My army is led by Commander Argus Shaw, Champion of Blackrock Bay!"

"K. So how does he differ from Commander Michael Rein, the Indomitable?"

"Er . . . he has a Bolt Pistol instead of a Plasma Pistol."

"Riiiiight."

[Sawtooth]

Hmm, have you tried any of the special characters beyond Celestine? Creed, Pask, and Straken all have interesting little tricks. If not them, perhaps an Inquisitor? I haven't tried them this edition but I understand they offer reasonable customization and some unique options, plus they can freely use any guard transport.

[Kinstryfe]

Respectfully, it seems you may want to just ask your opponents what their hangups are and why they aren't having fun, or seem to not be having fun. If you remove narrative play, as you have, you're really just left with list building, and that can go either way depending what your opponent thinks. If you're both playing to primarily to win (which is kind of the point, in lots of ways) there isn't a lot you can do without severely handicapping yourself while remaining really competitive.

[TheShredder]

Hmm, have you tried any of the special characters beyond Celestine? Creed, Pask, and Straken all have interesting little tricks. 

 

I've never been a fan of a tank-warlord and Creed just never interested me. I quite liked Yarrick in 7th, less so his current incarnation (the removal of his 'get back up' ability made me sad, as did replacing orders with the aura). I might try him sometime though.

 

I'd like to try Straken in a themed list sometime, but he's not a character I'd want to use regularly.

 

 

If not them, perhaps an Inquisitor? I haven't tried them this edition but I understand they offer reasonable customization and some unique options, plus they can freely use any guard transport.

 

It looks like they have basically the same customisation IG characters, as in you're basically limited to weapon swaps (albeit with a wider range of such). They also don't have much synergy with my army beyond being Imperium.

 

That said, they do have very nice models and I like the idea even if I'm not enamoured with the actual mechanics. I'll take another look at them when they get a proper codex (given their size, I'm guessing that they'll be rolled in with SoB or something).

 

Thanks for the suggestions, anyway.

[NatBrannigan]

Yarrick is still great! I love that he's just an old (experienced?) Commissar who can shrug of death just because he's a proper badass, not because he's a Space Marine Chapter Master (who seem to be part of every single Space Marine army!) who has 17 special organs, a suit of power armour and a magic shield (that again seem to have been mass produced) to make him tough! The man lost an arm and strapped an Ork claw on instead...

[Die4Emprah]

Don't use conscripts.

Leave your deployment zone no one ever expects you to

Use Scions to screw with your opponent

Mortars are fun for everyone

Invest in bigger guns

Drop the special character, likely she wont help you much when we get a codex anyway

I found my opponents love fighting conscripts, we both giggle when I'm taking models off the board 20 at a time, hahahaha