Treadheads in 8th?

[Joasht]

Greetings all,

It's been a VERY long time since I last touched my Guard, but with the advent of 8th I'm looking into revitalizing my armored company (i.e. mostly tanks).

 

That said,

1) How are you finding AM tanks, in general, this edition? Sure seems like they need to be bubblewrapped, since they can't shoot after reversing out of melee if someone deepstrike-charges.

 

2) Which tanks, and which loadouts, are you finding particularly useful this edition?

 

Currently I'm thinking of doing a list of approximately 4 Leman Russes, a Wyvern, a Manticore, and a couple of Chimeras or Tauroxes with Veterans and/or Scions just to clear some lanes if the enemy gets close. Everything will be deployed in vehicles though :)

 

Thank you!

[Sawtooth]

If you're taking Russes, take Pask. He is fantastic and can give two orders to Leman Russ tanks (though not his own). He's only 10 points more than a standard tank commander. I like him in a Punisher to take advantage of his obscene ballistic skill.

Battle Tanks I find hit or miss with their battle cannons since they're so random. I don't like Vanquishers, I feel it's too hard to get use out of their main guns, though others seem to like them. I've had good luck with an Exterminator since now twin linked means 4 shots, though I'm not sure if it's the most efficient use of a tank. I like Executioners under orders to make them less likely to explode. I love Demolishers loaded with flamers, though I'm an aggressive player and usually support them with infantry. Other variants I haven't tried. For hull and sponson weapons, I'm still playing with options but Heavy Bolters are actually a really solid option this time around, and hull lascannons I find pretty useful on a tank with the Kill on Sight order or Pask/Tank Commander. I haven't played with Multi-meltas yet. Plasma sponsons are nice but potentially dangerous, and I prefer to have them on a tank that will have the Kill on Sight order to mitigate potential self-harm.

Also, Baneblades and their variants seem to be really nasty this edition if you want to go big.

Overall I like the Leman Russ and find them very durable this edition with the change to vehicles.

Edited July 26, 2017 by Sawtooth

[Shamansky]

Vanquisher is a shelf dweller this edition. Exterminator used to be better with 4 shots AND reroll to-hit, now it's just 4 shots. Flamers are very useful 'sidearms' since tanks can overwatch now and they don't give a damn about BS reduction as your wounds are shot off. Speaking of wounds, roll of 1 on overcharged plasma shot makes your tank a useless piece of terrain with BS 5+, so tank commanders are 'must have' if you want use all plasma's potential. And don't go to battle without infantry support.

Haven't tested Erradicator yet, but it looks like it will be needed to counter bonus from cover on all those snipers, markers etc., as long as wyvern is almost a rubbish without 'ignores cover' rule now.

Edited July 26, 2017 by Shamansky

[WarriorFish]

Tactically they're much the same as before - for example infantry escorts are important, even more so arguably with how fast enemies can be on you. Vehicles are tougher, and won't be getting knocked out in a single hit any more which is great but they are more expensive for it.

 

Hellhounds will server you very well as pickets as well as escorts, help you keep your armoured company theme. Sentinels are sadly less useful with the -1 to hit on move, but keep them cheap and they can perform infantry roles for you.

[Halfpint100]

Artillery still works well. Leman russes are inaccurate IMO. Vanq is useless unless you go forgeworld varients. Hellhounds and the chemical ones are great! fast, cheap and autohits. the melta one (devil dog) sucks. 

[CoffeeGrunt]

I think it's worth noting that the Executioner can fire guns blazing without risking self-harm though, it just can't over charge for bonus damage. This is irrelevant unless you're targeting a unit with W2+ though, the S7 D1 mode will often get the job done about as well.

 

The Vanquisher is sadly a long-range Lascannon with a re-roll on the damage D6 and -1S. Really disappointing.

 

The Template tanks are a mixed bag. On the one hand, firing the Demolisher or Battle Cannon no longer negates your other guns, but on the other they're so much less reliable in terms of number of hits, and don't really do much against hordes or even large squads. However they're more effective against single models than they used to be. Tbh, it's not so much that they're ineffective as the fact they don't feel like they used to.

[Emicus]

Hellhounds are wicked and Baneblades are way better!

 

Taurox Primes are the bees knees, especially with the dakka gatling

[NatBrannigan]

Coffee Grunt. Nail. Head. Hit. Didn't even need to use the re-roll 1's order.

 

The Battle Tanks, with the exception of the Punisher, perform very different roles now. The Demolisher is a beast against high Toughness / Wound units. It's a tank killer now. The Battle Cannon is the same but more of an elite (2 wound) infantry killer. The Vanquisher went from a tank killer to a handy place for Guardsman to dry their washing which is unfortunate. For the most part the main guns are good against vehicles and monstrous creatures. I do think you need Pask though. Re-rolls to hit makes them so much more reliable. Using a CP to re-roll the number of shots dice is also something to keep in mind. If you turn that 1 Battle Cannon shot into 4, that's a CP well used.

 

The sponsons are now useful and that's where your anti-infantry firepower can come from. I'm loving Heavy Flamers of course and that's normally the front weapon sorted. I'm also liking cheap but improved Heavy Bolters for sponsons since split fire is now a thing.

 

The important thing is to never let your tanks get into combat. That's a minimum of 1 turn shooting wasted and it's cost me dearly so far. Your vets in Chimeras will do just fine but you might fine yourself short on Infantry. You could stick Heavy Flamers (the answer to everything at the moment!) on the Chimera and park it in the way to help screen the tanks. That's some nasty overwatch right there.

 

I've also had luck running a Primaris Psyker behind a tank to dish out the +1 to save power. I need to convert up a Techpriest as well because I suspect 1 or 2 of them hiding behind my other 2 tanks will be well worth it.

[Galron]

You can also check out FW's tanks. Malcadors if I remember are now heavies and not superheavies. I am considering a section of them in the future just because I think they would look pretty bad on the table in formation.

 

In my experience against and using LR tanks so far they have been middling. Mine are shelved until I run the army list above. Bubblewrap is nice until they have the firepower to clear the bubblewrap and tie your tanks up in combat the entire game. Also when I fight against them I have a habit of "legging and leaving them" to use a Scadian phrase where I damage and degrade them to the point they are almost useless and move to the next one. Its not hard to concentrate on two tanks with your army and take them down especially if you are using an infantry based army. Against a lot of infantry your tanks will struggle, especially if its a shooty infantry army which guard and marines can pull off fairly easy. In fact a gun line guard infantry army would have a field day vs an armored company.

 

Superheavies however are absolute beasts. Even gunline armies have issues with them, but you do have to keep them safely bubble wrapped against tau as their 18" meltas will hurt you when they drop in. I have noticed though, SHs are stupidly good at a certain role and then kind of flop for anything else. Shadowswords will tear the hell out of other vehicles and then struggle to do much to infantry. Baneblades are good general SHs for multi-role.

[CoffeeGrunt]

I'm finding that the cruiser tanks are a lot better than they were, the Hellhound variants. Hellhound itself is a right beast. The Russes are middling sadly, they're fairly easy to take apart with dedicated weaponry and struggle to inflict damage without a lot of support, which makes them feel more like Infantry tanks than ever before.

 

Haven't had the chance to take my Macharius tanks out for a spin yet. The Malcador Infernus looks like an absolute tyrant on paper. I've only taken my Baneblade out once, and it pretty much single-handedly held off an army.

[Chaplain Gunzhard]

What do you guys think of the LR Annihilator? ...I know it's FW but I'm thinking to run a BT commander with a LR Annihilator sidekick.

 

I've played 8th edition only using Marines so far but in every game I've played and witnessed tanks are getting assaulted... the HF seems like a auto-include for me.

 

I've also ordered some Conqueror turrets from Victoria Miniatures as I think that looks like a solid option.

[CoffeeGrunt]

The Annihilator seems like a solid option these days, IMO. I mean there's cheaper ways to get Lascannons on the table, but it can bring three on a durable chassis.

[Die4Emprah]

I've been using mostly battle cannon variants, heavy bolter sides. Works.
I bubble wrap them in conscripts, hide the J.O.'s and Kommissars between the rear track-wells.

 

As said before, Pask is worth the points, orders are "meh" but worth the BS skill for sure. I also gave him the punisher. 

 

You can also really do some damage with Yarrick hiding behind dakka tanks. (I mean, you need morale for your bubble wrap anyway, right?)

If you're like me, 1's are my most common roll, I like a second shot at those. 

[FallenSoldiers]

The artillery is amazing, but I find if 1 is good, 2 are better!  2 Manticores or 2 Basilisks are just punishing!  Especially so if you make an artillery corner and keep either a Master of Ordnance there or  Yarrick...reroll those 1's baby!

 

I ran a Shadowsword in a tournament over the weekend and in 2 separate games it wiped out a Relic Dread in 1 volley (20 wounds through) and a Leviathan Dread in another (17 wounds through).  They don't suffer in CC either since their sponsons can still fire into the combat (you did remember your twin heavy flamers right??) and the main guns can shoot at anywhere else.  Or you an just drive away.

 

The LR chassis has been solidly "eh" for me.  Punishers have done well, Executioners are fun (when paired with Pask), Demolishers are nasty but my opponents knew to go after them first, ha!

Edited July 26, 2017 by FallenSoldiers

[Chaplain Gunzhard]

The Annihilator seems like a solid option these days, IMO. I mean there's cheaper ways to get Lascannons on the table, but it can bring three on a durable chassis.

 

This made me do a double-take... I always thought the Annihilator could also take Lascannon sponsons for 5 LC shots... I see now that it cannot. Is this new or was that never an option [taking LC sponsons]?

[Altasmurf]

I'm surprised to see so many people loving the hellhound. I've found mine pretty lack luster. Between needing 3s to wound and only -1 ap it's not really doing much damage. Now it hasn't been killed yet, but mostly because my opponents don't see it as a threat. To me it seems to need a bit more oomph, like ignore cover. Persoannly ill be trying a bane wolf next.

[WarriorFish]

Needing 3s to wound is good - it's much harder to get a 2+ to wound now and -1 AP is respectable. It's not an anti-tank weapon after all! What makes it nice is the range and auto-hit and the Hellhound itself is pretty fast and durable.

[CoffeeGrunt]

Also Damage 2. It can do a number on multi-wound models through saturation. It's a great support tank to soften up units or scare Infantry off objectives. Had a Goliath Rockgrinder charge one and take 7 wounds for its insolence once. :P

 

This made me do a double-take... I always thought the Annihilator could also take Lascannon sponsons for 5 LC shots... I see now that it cannot. Is this new or was that never an option [taking LC sponsons]?

 

 

LC sponsons have never been an option for any Leman Russ.

[Altasmurf]

Ah one thing I just noticed is that it has 16" range, I thought it was 12". I agree it's a support weapon, but as far back as 2nd edition my opponents were afraid of the thing, so far in 8th all I hear is "heh, that's it...". I find it an ok tank, just not what it once was.

[Die4Emprah]

I'll give the hellhound a try, I was using "devildog" variants recently for lackluster performance. Admittedly, I couldn't catch a break on the d3 shots, and summarily missed the few shots I did take..... 

[Halfpint100]

yer the devil dog sucks, waaaay too inaccurate. sws in a valk are better or just lascannon hwt

[Altasmurf]

Guard deffinatly got hit by the -1 to hit on moving heavies. Going to 5+ is rough on low shot weapons and unlike orcs and space marines guard lack twin linking to give additional shots. Sentinels, chimera and devil dogs being the hardest hit. This has put armoured armies at a disadvantage.

[TheDecay]

I think the coolest thing about the hellhound is that it explodes on a 4+, you can just bomb it up the board flaming as you go daring your opponent to kill it or keep taking those flamer bursts

[ThomasEll]

It seems like a bit of a shame that they didn't really think about some of the Leman Russ weapons when moving to 8th, Vanquisher just needed to get a strength increase (IMO, should have been given 16, that way it could wound most tanks on a 2+), as it stands it's fairly pointless taking it compared to a regular battle cannon (D6 S8 shots or a single S8 shot ). Exterminator seems to have been missed out on the "Twin-link = Double shots" that everything else got, hopefully that will get fixed by the time the codex drops.

[CoffeeGrunt]

I love the Devildog as a concept, (tank hunting cruiser,) but yeah, it's a tank that wants to play aggressive yet it cripples its ability to hit anything if it does. I guess it could work as a static support that tries to scare off enemy tanks and monsters, but other units do that better IMO.