Vanguard Veterans: Zeal From Above

[T-Rock]

Greetings brothers! With our Chapter Tactics the worst kept secret in the Imperium (besides the fact Dark Angels are heretics) I've been putting a lot of thought in to Vanguard Veterans. Currently, I'm feeling a plasma pistol/chainsword combo with a Captain/Castellan supporting with re-rolls. That makes them a threat from both range and close combat, which has now been buoyed by our chapter tactics.

 

So, while I found Vanguard Veterans as a potential solution for my list, I kept peeling back more questions. I figured I'd share and get some conversation going, as I see these fellas as a valuable part of our crusade going forward. 

 

Fluff wise, what color would you think their pauldrons would be? Assault marines were always white with red trim, but technically these are just sword brothers with jump packs. I'd love to see some pictures if anyone has any on hand they are proud of. 

 

Crunch wise, what are some loadouts you have found effective? For those of you who have used them in a few different games, how did they perform? How many did you bring?

 

Discuss!

[Kisada]

I really wish GW would have made plastic versions of the sword brethren's bulky shoulder pads and included them in our upgrade pack.

 

If you're going to be strict I guess it would be the black pad/red trim/ red cross.

[Kizzdougs]

In my opinion Vanguard Veterans=Sword Brethren, so I'd go with the black and red shoulder plates. 

 

I've been thinking of starting some Templars for 8th and my initial list includes a squad kitted out for combat in a Crusader with supporting Characters.

 

I'm not too sure about plasma pistols. I'll need to see them in action before I can shake my 7th ed impression of them (massively overpriced).

[Gerhard]

I'm a big fan of Vanguard Veterans. Depending on what type of game you play (Points or PL) they can be kitten differently. When I play a PL game I usually take 10 Vanguards with 6 TH/SS and Dual LC. I add a Chaplain with Jumppack to it and you have an awesome Turn-1 Charge unit that can reap some serious havoc to the enemy unit you want to kill quick. Reason I started giving then shields is their squishyness. Thats the only downside of them.

 

In a Point game I pick a different loadout, still a handfull of TH/SS but mainly Chainswords / Plasma Pistols because a fully kitted squad of Vanguards is quite expensive point wise.

 

Fluffwise they are Sword Brethren, and thus have the Black pad with Red trim and Red cross. I also give them a little tabard (Spellcrow) for extra Fluff and the occasional Sheathed Powersword just to make them more Zealous.

 

Have fun with them. Vanguards (and Sternguard too for that matter) are amongst my favourite units.

[Firepower]

 

If you're going to be strict A Templar I guess it would be the black pad/red trim/ red cross.

 

Ahem. 

 

Previously I'd count on Vanguard to win by sheer weight of attacks, but losing those old bonus attacks in 8th edition sorta pinches that off a bit.  Plasma pistols feel like a generally decent option.  From there it's dealers choice, and a matter of what enemies you're prone to squaring off against; things that need big swings, things that need a lotta swings, etc.

[TheOneTrueZon]

I just did some vanguard veterans in the vein of being Sword Brethren - I went with red cross, black pad, red trim:

 

http://i.imgur.com/4BGYCe4.jpg

[Marshal Laeroth]

Vanguard Veterans are indispensable in this edition as an Alpha Strike unit.  I've found that plasma pistols for all and just chainswords makes for an extremely lethal unit.  The re-rolls to charge makes them even more dangerous.

[Gerhard]

Out of curiousity... where do you get the Plasma Pistol bits? I've been looking for 10 but so far they only come as 1 in a box....

[Ciler]

Out of curiousity... where do you get the Plasma Pistol bits? I've been looking for 10 but so far they only come as 1 in a box....

There's presumably one in every box (space marine captain, tactical squad, devastator squad), and I think the assault squad may have 2. the space wolf pack sprue also has two but I expect they have some modicum of SW markings.

[Ciler]

I myself am going to try a slightly different approach, with a squad of either 9 or 10 sword brethren with power sword & storm shield along wwith Helbrecth, a castellan and possibly the EC in a stormraven (so no jump packs). I'm thinking however that, as such, I might actually play them as company veterans rather than vanguard so they can intercept wounds for the characters.

[Marshal Laeroth]

I myself am going to try a slightly different approach, with a squad of either 9 or 10 sword brethren with power sword & storm shield along wwith Helbrecth, a castellan and possibly the EC in a stormraven (so no jump packs). I'm thinking however that, as such, I might actually play them as company veterans rather than vanguard so they can intercept wounds for the characters.

 

Its possible that this would work; however, just know that it'll put your stormraven at risk.  It'll certainly be an effective close combat unit that will only be bolstered by our chapter tactics to ensure it gets where it needs to be.  :)

[Ciler]

I'll need to bring the storm raven close anyway to fire the twin-linked multi melta. The ennemy will also have to contend with the dreadnought, I'm not worried about the raven.

[balordazul]

I still have never picked up a storm raven but as it really is the only way to get CC Ironclad into combat reliably I might be doing so.  Once they are back in stock  seeing that people went nuts with raven spam but post FAQ they should be available again.

 

With a fast glance I did not notice it on the data sheet but do you still need to be in hover mode to disembark?  

[Ciler]

I still have never picked up a storm raven but as it really is the only way to get CC Ironclad into combat reliably I might be doing so.  Once they are back in stock  seeing that people went nuts with raven spam but post FAQ they should be available again.

 

With a fast glance I did not notice it on the data sheet but do you still need to be in hover mode to disembark?  

Nope, that's the beauty of it. T1 you move forward just about anywhere you want on the table (because M20-60). T2 disembark with the only requirement of being more than 1" away from an enemy model, unlike deep striking units that have a 9" requirement, and you can still fly off full tilt.

[Kisada]

no need to switch to hover to disembark

 

I still have never picked up a storm raven but as it really is the only way to get CC Ironclad into combat reliably I might be doing so.  Once they are back in stock  seeing that people went nuts with raven spam but post FAQ they should be available again.

 

With a fast glance I did not notice it on the data sheet but do you still need to be in hover mode to disembark?  

Nope, that's the beauty of it. T1 you move forward just about anywhere you want on the table (because M20-60). T2 disembark with the only requirement of being more than 1" away from an enemy model, unlike deep striking units that have a 9" requirement, and you can still fly off full tilt.

 

 

yup ... and then your Ironclad gets to flame or melta some stuff then charge and smash

[balordazul]

Very cool hmmmm I might need one now as I do miss my drop pod delivering my dreads.  But even if the drop pod could still do so at the pods point value a storm raven is most likely a better investment.  

 

Also thank you for the clarification.  

[Ciler]

Very cool hmmmm I might need one now as I do miss my drop pod delivering my dreads.  But even if the drop pod could still do so at the pods point value a storm raven is most likely a better investment.  

 

Also thank you for the clarification.  

Drop pods are 10 less points in the codex, but still can't transport dreads. Only the Imperial Armour (Forgeworld) index drop pod can, at a measly 120 pts a pop.

[balordazul]

Right but even at 90 or 120 I think spending the points on a storm raven seems to be a better point investment as it is a two for one transport with its load out makes for a solid weapon platform.  

[KhorneHunter57x]

I've used my blue Vanguard Veterans a bit with a mix of weapons, and I really like having dual Lightning Claws. Sure, it's one of the more expensive loadouts, but extra attacks, AP -2, and re-rolls to wound make them one of my favorites. They feel like a nice generalist weapon, useful against most infantry targets.
 

 

Out of curiousity... where do you get the Plasma Pistol bits? I've been looking for 10 but so far they only come as 1 in a box....

There's presumably one in every box (space marine captain, tactical squad, devastator squad), and I think the assault squad may have 2. the space wolf pack sprue also has two but I expect they have some modicum of SW markings.

 

 The Assault Marine box has three (!).

[Firepower]

The Raven-Vanguard-Ironclad bomb has been sitting in my theoretical lists lately as well.  A lot of points in one flying box, but such potential.  Having an LRC on the board to be scary as well should help.

[Ciler]

The Raven-Vanguard-Ironclad bomb has been sitting in my theoretical lists lately as well.  A lot of points in one flying box, but such potential.  Having an LRC on the board to be scary as well should help.

I'm playing one saturday, I'll let you know.

[Brother Talarian]

 

 

The Raven-Vanguard-Ironclad bomb has been sitting in my theoretical lists lately as well. A lot of points in one flying box, but such potential. Having an LRC on the board to be scary as well should help.

I'm playing one saturday, I'll let you know.

Please do. The idea of 10 VV with SH and PS riding around with halbrecht is too cool to pass up.

 

EDIT: does a SR need to be in hover mode for units to jump out? I didn't notice any rules on disembarking from the SR... and can't see any reason why you'd want to hover, unless you're doing it to not fly off the board

Edited July 28, 2017 by Brother Talarian

[Brother Talarian]

I'm eagerly waiting for the results... the prospect of converting 10 crusaders with sword and board is awesome

[Kisada]

 

EDIT: does a SR need to be in hover mode for units to jump out? I didn't notice any rules on disembarking from the SR... and can't see any reason why you'd want to hover, unless you're doing it to not fly off the board

 

 

No need to hover 

[Ciler]

All right so, since my opponent had some problems with transport, we have to scale down our game so I didn't get to use the VV with sword and shield. I'll nonetheless keep ye appraised if I do.