Thoughts of Heresy: included army lists for learning to play

[Blender]

Greetings Brothers,

 

It is with great remorse to report that I am being seduced by Nurgle, the Dark Eldar, and green skins. Having played some exciting games with anything less than a Black Templar, I must confess that these other armies are enjoyable. With the release of the latest edition, I only have time for one army.

 

Having suffered more losses than victories with the Black Templars, my zeal is fading. I come to you now with ruined spirits, broken sword and spent pistol to ask a simple question.

 

Should I turn away from the Emperor's light? Am I too damned to return to the Emperor's grace?

 

 

Edited August 2, 2017 by Blender

[Lucerne]

See the light of the true gods.

[Brother Captain Sirus]

Try some Aggressors with either loadout and you will become such a bright beacon for the Emperor's light that you will be mistaken for the astranomicon (or however you spell it)

[Marshal_Roujakis]

So... giving up before getting the Codex?

I mean, if you're just tired of painting black, then that's understandable... I tend to use other color pallets now as well on my Templars either in small insignia or some icon on their armor... so you could try that approach...

 

but if it's stemming from a pure gaming viewpoint, then I suggest getting the Codex a try first and getting a few games with the new Codex options and points and strategems and traits... it might make your game a little bit more enjoyable...

 

And Chaos isn't that fun without a Codex really... you're just running generic units without affiliation or Legion rules... it's more fun now to run Chapters due to the new Codex... 

[Brother Christopher]

We do not need seeds of corruption and heresy here. Neither the faint of hart. But remember this - one day your traitors or xenos will meet a Black Templar force that will vanquish you. Only then will you understand the extent of your mistake.

 

More seriously, though: do I understand correctly that you want to quit because you're losing games or is there something else to it?

[Blender]

We do not need seeds of corruption and heresy here. Neither the faint of hart. But remember this - one day your traitors or xenos will meet a Black Templar force that will vanquish you. Only then will you understand the extent of your mistake.

 

More seriously, though: do I understand correctly that you want to quit because you're losing games or is there something else to it?

 

Haha, true. There aren't too many Black Templar players in my area so I don't have too much support in how to play them. Roujakis makes a good point that I should at least try the new Codex.

 

I'm mainly constrained by time. I don't have as much time as I used to, to enjoy the hobby. That's why I need to focus on one army instead of running multiple mini armies. I'm a little tired of the Black Templars since I have been collecting and playing them on and off since 3rd edition. Maybe I have been staring at space marines too long but I always thought the other infantry in the game looked cooler. I'm more of a painter than a modeller so I'm not too good at blinging out my Black Templars. 

[Gerhard]

Thoughts like these haunt everyone once in a while I am sure. The way I see it, the game is currently in a storm. New rules, new codexes, new marines, pretty much everything that was once there is now being overhauled. In a storm there are two types of responses: either batter down the windows and pray it passes, or start building windmills to gain profit from the storm.

 

As with any game, in any new release that involves a new type of characters or classes, the 'new guys' are always best in the early parts of the release. Why? Because they are new, have the newest rules, so starting to play those guys off the bat gives you an advantage. That advantage is the fact that the veteran players are still adapting their favourite units and playstyles to the new rules and new edition. Of course you'll, for starters, lose from the new Plague Marines. We've never encountered them so we have to learn their weaknesses, and the guys playing them are massively using the new goodies given to them. Only natural.

 

This storm isn't going to pass, Primaris are here to stay, 8th edition is here to stay, so the way I see it building windmills is the only way to enjoy the game. I have therefore chosen to embrace all the changes, experiment with Primaris, and adapt to the changes brought forward by Games Workshop. So far, I am greatly enjoying that. 

 

Our new tactics demand a different playstyle, as does 8th edition. If you're willing to embrace it, it can be quite rewarding. An example given for our Chapter Tactics... if I must believe the reactions on this board I am one of the very few that likes it. Why? Because I've adapted my army to it. I now always bring Vanguards and set up some form of Alpha-Strike which with rerolls and stratagems has a very small chance of failing. The result: some games are over after turn one. I'll soon be starting to experiment with Reivers as well to further strengthen this type of play. Furthermore I tried one game with a black-tide / footslog approach and died horribly. Why? I didn't adapt. Vehicles are now viable again, so I've started experimenting with small five man squads in either Razorbacks or Rhino's. The result: my melee units are able to survive just fine and do some serious damage when they disembark.

 

What I'm trying to say is: sure there will be 'favourite of the month' armies and tactics, but the bottomline is if you're willing to adapt and deal with the new rules and goodies, any army can be viable enough to provide fun and success. The question is simply how much time you're willing to put into experimenting, learning and adapting? If your time is very limited, and you're simply willing to play a quick game or two, then perhaps it is indeed a good idea to play with the newer guys. If not, then your Black Templars can be just as viable

Edited July 29, 2017 by Gerhard

[Marshal_Roujakis]

 

We do not need seeds of corruption and heresy here. Neither the faint of hart. But remember this - one day your traitors or xenos will meet a Black Templar force that will vanquish you. Only then will you understand the extent of your mistake.

 

More seriously, though: do I understand correctly that you want to quit because you're losing games or is there something else to it?

 

Haha, true. There aren't too many Black Templar players in my area so I don't have too much support in how to play them. Roujakis makes a good point that I should at least try the new Codex.

 

I'm mainly constrained by time. I don't have as much time as I used to, to enjoy the hobby. That's why I need to focus on one army instead of running multiple mini armies. I'm a little tired of the Black Templars since I have been collecting and playing them on and off since 3rd edition. Maybe I have been staring at space marines too long but I always thought the other infantry in the game looked cooler. I'm more of a painter than a modeller so I'm not too good at blinging out my Black Templars. 

 

 

I do have a similar situation to you and do feel sometimes the lack of inspiration when it comes to Space Marines in general... what I tend to do is feed on some of those impulses when it comes to other models being cooler instead... I focus on my Templars in which it is my primary army, they would be the ones - in the Emperor's own words - with the greatest of armors and with the mightiest guns will they be armed, they will have tactics, strategies and machines that no foe could beat them in battle... meaning, they get majority of my attention when it comes to hobby... they would have the FW units, more equipment, more bits and sprues and would have all the necessary books... but I would buy 1-2 models to satiate my need when it comes to other models from other armies... I don't collect the entire or even a small armies worth of the other factions, but only a very few models here and there so that I could enjoy painting and modelling other things besides Space Marines...

 

For example... recently I added a few Inquisitors into my model line... they don't have a retinue, nor transports nor bodyguards, just about a few models that I can use as Inquisitors and try my hand at painting more dazzling or more lucrative colors than black and white... or that one time I read the Talon of Horus book by AD-B and got interested in creating my own Abaddon... and then there was that moment I decided to create zombies so that the Templars can go zombie hunting to pass the time (and try new configurations and rules...) so I painted a few of those... it doesn't necessarily need to be a mini army, just enough to feed your desire to paint something else and have a look at something else, meanwhile your Templars will be the true focus of your army building...

[Acebaur]

Well what kind of lists are you running? And what does your opponents run? Knowing these kind for things will help us give you some advice on how to improve your victory ratio

[Medjugorje]

Greetings Brothers,

 

It is with great remorse to report that I am being seduced by Nurgle, the Dark Eldar, and green skins. Having played some exciting games with anything less than a Black Templar, I must confess that these other armies are enjoyable. With the release of the latest edition, I only have time for one army.

 

Having suffered more losses than victories with the Black Templars, my zeal is fading. I come to you now with ruined spirits, broken sword and spent pistol to ask a simple question.

 

Should I turn away from the Emperor's light? Am I too damned to return to the Emperor's grace?

i am wondering. I played about 30 games in this edition now... half of them with Black Templars. And my statistics are:

 

with Ultramarines:   2 wins, 3 losses

with Dark Eldar: 3 wins, 1 losses

with Ynnari: 3 wins, 1 losses

with Eldar: 1 win

with Necrons: 7 wins, 1 losses

with my Black Templar 0 losses and about 15 wins.

 

show us your enemies and your lists and maybe we can help you

[Honda]

WHERE. IS. YOUR. ZEAL?

[Marshal Wolfhart]

From a Templar standpoint Honda said it all.

 

From a RL standpoint: This is your free time, you should get enjoyment out of it. I sidelined my Templars for quite a bit and focussed on my Eldar army for playing. But I love modelling and painting Templars still, and boy do i get a blast trashtalking on this board :D Once i get to buy the codex, they'll see play again, if i get enough painted :P

I'd only be careful not to act on a whim with such decissions, I have a several hundred € heavy guard army, sitting in boxes under my desk, because i bought them back when they were the meta army (leafblower days...). I wish i had those bucks spent in models i liked the look and feel of, instead of strong rules and i really regret that to this day. It's important to find people to play with, where you still have fun in loosing a game. Unless you're a hardcore competitive slut, then go for the rules army :P But then again, you would have never picked up Templars after 5th :D

[Blender]

Well what kind of lists are you running? And what does your opponents run? Knowing these kind for things will help us give you some advice on how to improve your victory ratio

Usually I run multiple small units with las/plas in razorbacks. Sometimes it's the old fashioned rhino rush with 10 strong. My land speeder typhoon regularly sees action. Sometimes its a mix of razorback gun platforms with lascannons and just 2 big blobs of crusaders running down field. I have a dreadnought, sword brethern, and honorguard that sit on the shelf.

 

I'm glad I'm not the only one that plays other armies. Haha in 5th edition I was messing around with gunline Black Templars. Which is pretty much sacrilege. I'll probably see how the new rules are before deciding which army to main.

Edited July 29, 2017 by Blender

[Kisada]

I think one of the problems is that many of us see Templars as a close combat army but we really aren't.  We don't have a hard hitting CC unit that is unique to us.  Sure our CT lets us get into combat more reliably but then what?  Look at things like genestealers, wulfen, khorne berserkers (which are rumored to have a stratagem that allows them to pile in and attack a third time!).

 

I'm also feeling like Blender ... but instead of going to the other side I'm making a primaris based army while still adding some tools to my Templars ... such as ordering a chaplain dread to march behind the front lines without fear of being shot down.

 

Another benefit I have is that I'm not a tournament type player ... I like playing narrative games and events ... helps to level out the field a bit when you aren't playing against WAAC-y, spammy, crush your face lists.

[Firepower]

I think one of the problems is that many of us see Templars as a close combat army but we really aren't.

 

Heresy. 

[SWORD BROTHER RYAN]

I have to agree with many others in this discussion about changing it up once in a while to paint up a unit from another army. About a year ago now, I picked up a Bloodthirster because I liked the model & painted it up using new-to-me painting techniques. It turned out beautifully (well, as beautiful as a massive deamon covered in blood CAN be!), and gave me the time away from just painting black-and-white constantly that I felt I needed.

 

I then turned back to my Black Templars with refreshed ZEAL and some new tricks up my sleeve for painting other colors than just black-and-white, and it has only improved my skill level.

 

As for the gaming aspect, I also have to agree with others here that you need to have a good look at the recently released codex and revise the way you field and play the game. 8th is a whole new mountain to climb, and to tell the truth, I'm still working out the kinks myself to come up with an all around workable list. I also recommend playing around with the detachment organizations and figuring out the best use for stratagems. It's going to take some time, maybe longer if your budget or time is constrained, but it will be well worth it in the future.

 

I have played other armies in the past, but I always come back to my Templars in the long run. I usually regret spending the money on some other model for another force that I could have put toward my Black Templars to bolster them up more. It was the first army I ever played, so I guess I'm a bit biased, but I do recommend that you stick with it. Just my $0.02. 

[Aegir_Einarsson]

Heresy or not wise genral uses all advantages to defeat enemy:)

[HighMarshalAlex]

If you want to break up the painting, why not 30k IF? ;)

[Kastor Krieg]

If you want to break up the painting, why not 30k IF?

Or why not do what I do and mesh 30k IF Templars / 40k Crimson Fists / 40k Templars into a Dornian force? I run something like that by the name of "The Brotherhood of the Wall". I intend to add single HQs from other Dornian chapters, especially since characters work as they do now :)

[Marshal Laeroth]

 

 

I think one of the problems is that many of us see Templars as a close combat army but we really aren't.

Heresy.

Initiates will take their Lascannons, Missile Launchers, and Bolters to smash their enemies in the face if their Marshal commands it. ;)

[Brother Captain Sirus]

 

 

I think one of the problems is that many of us see Templars as a close combat army but we really aren't.

Heresy.

Initiates will take their Lascannons, Missile Launchers, and Bolters to smash their enemies in the face if their Marshal commands it. ;)

I believe you made a couple of spelling errors, i believe they are called the Lasbasher, missile club and bolt mace.

 

And with that all corrected, here is your plasma slap, now go forth and beat up an ork, witch, heretic....

[Aegir_Einarsson]

missile club and bolt mace - .

[Castellan Doren]

I build armies loyal to the Imperium. BT, Guard, Deathwatch.

 

So when i'm ready for a break I have options to branch out. Plus if I want a mega game I can field everything and it's fluffy and compatible.

[Gendo]

I feel your pain brother, had 2 games a week since release and badly lost pretty much all of them with a fluffy list, in 7th was 50/50.

 

The need for expensive transports, HQs and upgrades bites hard into model count and the vehicles getting locked into combat it's absurd imo, especially something big as a LRC.

 

I play 40k because of BT, will try the new codex and if it doesn't change much my enjoyment of the game i'll just quit.

[Brother Talarian]

Have you gentlemen tried taking a few members aside of your gaming group that would be more willing to run a narrative campaign? This way you can creat awesome scenarios and won't care if win or lose?