[Speculation] Legion codexes and models

[Ascanius]

Hello, and death to the False Emperor!

 

Something occurred to me earlier today that I wanted to explore. We know that the Death Guard are getting their own codex, and the fact that the Thousand Sons are not going to be in Codex: Chaos Space Marines basically confirms they will, too.

 

We also know that Games Workshop likes to support codex releases with models; even Codex: Grey Knights is seeing the re-release of Grand Master Voldus from the Triumvirate of the Primarch set as a standalone blister-pack.

 

So, what might be planned to come out with Codex: Thousand Sons? My theory, based upon a parallel with the Death Guard releases, is at least one kind of vehicle. Now, it's not like it's a rule that Games Workshop has to make every Traitor Legion range the same size, but for argument's sake let's say that's the plan.

 

We know that Mortarion, Plague Marines, and "Plague Terminators" are coming from various teasers. It's a reasonable inference that the Lord of Contagion, Noxious Blightbringer, and Malignant Plaguecaster will either be reboxed or, hopefully, "upgraded" to a multipart character kit. Likewise we can expect the Poxwalkers to at least be reboxed, if not also upgraded to a multipart kit.

 

So far we have equivalents to Magnus, Rubric Marines, Scarab Occult Terminators, the three Exalted Sorcerers, and the Tzaangors. What the Death Guard are missing is an equivalent to Ahriman - and it's not that much of a stretch to think that Typhus might get a new model to replace his old finecast one, just as Ahriman did.

 

On the other hand, there are two models the Thousand Sons are missing out on - the Foetid Bloat-Drone from the Dark Imperium starter set, and the Plagueburst Crawler bombard vehicle that has been teased in various places.

 

So I theorise we can expect one, or perhaps two, vehicles to come out in support of Codex: Thousand Sons, since they don't otherwise have a model to release in support. Whether or not this is as straightforward an equivalent as a tank/siege gun and a smallish flyer, I've no idea, but there's certainly room for it. Some sort of Warpflame Cannon, for instance? 

 

There's one big flaw in this theory, of course: there hasn't been any sign of any new models coming out in support of Codex: Chaos Space Marines, so maybe there won't be any new models for the Thousand Sons, and the Voldus re-release for Grey Knights is just the first step in Games Workshop breaking down the Triumvirate boxes for separate distribution.

 

I do have one theory about that: Dark Vengeance. There are some Chaos Space Marines models from that starter set that aren't currently available elsewhere, like the Chosen. A reboxing of whatever stocks they had left over, much less a new production run, could suffice as a release in support of the new codex.

 

Am I crazy? Let me know what you think. I'd also like to hear what you think might come out if they do go through all the god-pledged Legions.

 

For instance, we already have an updated model for Khârn, so would a World Eaters release introduce another character for the Ahriman/Typhus spot, such as Zhufor the Impaler or Kossolax, or just leave it?

 

Who gets that spot for the Emperor's Children, Fabius Bile or Lucius? Both?

 

What are the Khornate and Slaaneshi equivalents of the Terminator elite - Red Butchers? Fabius Bile's Terata?

[helterskelter]

Fabius Bile wouldn't go in the EC codex, having become a much separate entity over the millenia.

Phoenix Guard might make a corrupted reappearance, would also enjoy a 40k Eidolon, though it's probably going to be a new Lucius sculpt.

Khârn will be the man size special for Khorne, I think these guys will be 2018 and EC will be 2019 (because we got magnus 2016 and morty is coming this year, though 1 a year is rampant speculation)

[Panzer]

Yeah Fabius Bile neither has the Slaanesh faction keyword nor the Emperor's Children faction keyword. He is a lone wolf that uses anything and anyone.

[Lord Marshal]

At the very least I hope they'll allow the Legions to take that god's daemons as part of their codex. 

 

I don't think Thousand Sons will get any new models for the time being though. They're not loyalists afterall. 

[Panzer]

At the very least I hope they'll allow the Legions to take that god's daemons as part of their codex. 

 

I'd say that's pretty unlikely unless you field it as "Chaos" army. Daemons won't get the Legion faction keyword.

 

I guess we could still summon them if we want to play our army as Legion specific army tho.

[Archaeinox]

Thousand Sons are done. They blew that load in Dec and we have enough models to make a fluffy army true to the background.

 

We need stratagems, unique spells, tactical cards, etc.

[Zodd1888]

I know for sure TSons will get new models. It's simply a question if they'll come with the codex release or not. Their division of legions in this manner reflects a focus to identify TS and DG as a seperate product from CSM so it'd be foolish to not provide more options.

 

GW would have a goal to have a unique unit for each slot (except specialty units like LoW and Flyer, but expect a minimum of one) so players can play completely in theme, and solely with their army of choice. We'll just have to wait and see what happens.

 

I'm hoping TSons will get Psychic Dreadnoughts, a cheap Flyer squadron since CSM only have one Flyer in their range besides FW, either a Fast skimmer that does anti-tank or Khenati jump packs, and a Daemon Engine heavy support (maybe this could be another flyer?).

 

If we even got one of the above I'd be very happy. I'd like to see more Daemon Engines vs. Tanks.

[Panzer]

I'd love to hear your source for that or else it's just empty bla bla.

[Gnosis]

Hi!

 

I would really like to have for Thousand sons a glorious psychic Contemptor and Castellax-Achea Battle automata.. They would really help at close combat and at long range firepower and bring the much needed powerfists in the army... Also they would enhance the preheresy feeling  of the army.. stuff like hellbrute and maulerfiend arent fit for the Thousand sons aesthetics...

[Paradigm]

There are some really cool flyers in epic that could easily be added to TSons. I hope they get at least a couple vehicles.

[DuskRaider]

I could see the Thousand Sons getting a floating spire or something, like a mini Silver Tower. That being said, the Heldrake is technically a modern remake of the old Tzeentch flyer in Epic, so perhaps an upgrade kit for the Heldrake to make it more in line with Tzeentch and the Legion.

[Ascanius]

A Thousand Sons Sorcerer Dreadnought would be very cool.

 

I understand the idea that there won't be any more Thousand Sons models added because the range is done, but the Voldus thing got me wondering - they do like to have models to go with the books.

 

I'm also curious about the equivalents of the Tzaangors and Poxwalkers would be for the World Eaters and Emperor's Children. I'm imagining some kind of swollen muscleman mortal troops for the former, like the Bloodbound but in 40K (just as there are different Tzaangors in the AoS range), and some kind of mutilated ecstatic dervishes for the latter.

[Kaldoth]

I just want a new generic CSM box, Havocs, bikers, and oblits/ mutilators. Pretty much every non legion specific kit is well overdue for an update. Not that noise marines and zerkers dont deserve some love, but theyll likely get updated with their respective parent Legion releases.

[Panzer]

I just want a new generic CSM box, Havocs, bikers, and oblits/ mutilators. Pretty much every non legion specific kit is well overdue for an update. Not that noise marines and zerkers dont deserve some love, but theyll likely get updated with their respective parent Legion releases.

I agree. Tho I see why they want to release the cult specific stuff first. If they'd release a new Chaos Marine, Chosen or Havoc box, I'd buy those and use 3rd party bitz (mostly from Spellcrow) to convert them to Noise Marines and then when they get around to do actual EC models I wouldn't be as much interested in the basic Noise Marine as I would have normally.

It sucks big time for us but for GW as company it makes a whole lot of sense.

[Lord Asvaldir]

Well considering our codex is out for preorder next week and there will be no accompanying models for the release, it's unlikely any of those old kits are going to be updated in the near future. Down the road, maybe but definitely not within the next several months while gw is busy pumping out codexes.

 

For the same reason it seems incredibly unlikely TS will get any model releases. GW has never been equal in its treatment of all the chaos gods' factions so just because DG are getting some vehicles doesn't mean TS will. Since TS have a pretty good range now they'll probably just be a codex release at some point.

 

Best bet for new chaos kits besides DG is WE and EC units since down the road they'll probably get a codex eventually. I'd put my money on WE though because let's face it, Khorne units have always had far more favor in model releases and I don't see why GW would change that.

[Panzer]

I see everyone placing their bets on WE next but the only reason I can see is because Khorne is a community favorite over Slaanesh. In-universe we learned that at the big Khorne invasion Angrons arrival got prevented and meanwhile we learned that Fulgrim (or something very very similar) with lots of Emperor's Children got sighted thrashing planet. Plus Fulgrim already tried to :cuss around with Guilliman while we haven't heard anything about Angron so far.

[Lord Asvaldir]

Wouldn't really count on lore influencing releases that much. GW is always going to focus on the release that will make more money and there simply are more khorne fans than slaanesh. Now in my opinion my Noise marines needs updated models just as much as zerkers do but of course that doesn't change much.

[Marshal Loss]

I eagerly await the day the EC get redone - Sonic Terminators, Fulgrim etc...oh yes. Ohhhhh yes.

 

Khorne being first seems more likely to me, but the X factor is that Slaanesh has had literally 0 attention in Age of Sigmar. Doing EC next would allow them to redo a Keeper of Secrets, etc, and do a new god-specific release in both 40k and Sigmar in the same way they did Tzeentch. The downside is that I don't think GW knows what they want to do with Slaanesh.

[Ascanius]

I both hope for and expect a proper Chaos Space Marines line revamp at some point, but it's obviously not happening in concert with the codex release.

[Drudge Dreadnought]

Assuming that we aren't going to see units that don't have models, it is possible that we could see Chaos versions of models that exist, but do not have chaos specific models. For example, we could get Contemptor Dreadnoughts. Perhaps even Legion specific ones.

[Sception]

I expect no new releases for the CSM book, with the possible exception of releasing the push fit chaos lord & chosen from Dark Vengeance as independent model kits.

 

Likewise, I expect the Thousand Sons book will be another "inbetween release waves" codex with no new kits, like CSMs and Grey Knights, with the possible exception of some of the AoS Tzangor stuff getting rebranded for use in both AoS and 40k.

 

I expect Death Guard and possibly Nurgle Daemons to be the only actual new models waves for chaos in 40k this year, the latter coinciding with a Chaos Daemons codex.

 

Next year, I expect to see at least one if not both of World Eaters and Emperor's Children (probably in that order), and then in 2019 I expect to see a revised 8e codex for generic Chaos Space Marines along with an actual wave of new releases mostly made up of the Chaos answer to Primaris marines.  In particular I do not expect GW to update any of our painfully ancient existing kits like bikes, generic CSMs, havoks, etc, ever.  Instead, I expect the existing kits will be left to fade into obscurity as the units are replaced altogether by neo-CSM alternatives.

 

I'd also guess that we'll see a chaos triumvirate box set consisting of new models for Abaddon and Fabius Bile, plus a third non-cult-legion character - probably Huron, but maybe instead Be'Lakor, or maybe the same Cypher model as from the loyalist box just to play up his 'fighting for both sides' gimmick, or possibly a brand new character from one of the unaligned legions, or maybe a dark mechanicus counterpart to Cawl.  I'd guess this would appear with the chaos-alternative-to-primaris stuff summer 2019ish, but might appear as a stand alone box before that.

 

 

Please note that all of this is pure guesswork on my part.

[Sonoftherubric21]

While I agree overall it wont be anything major....I would like to take a guess that we may get a vehicle/fast unit of SOME variety. 

As of this moment we have a SINGLE fast attack slot. The only fast attack slot thousand sons can use is.... Chaos Spawn. 

While we (unlike death guard) get all the "standard" chaos heavy slots for tanks and such. 

Death guard seem to be getting every single slot added to in their new model range, HQ, elite, Troop, Fast attack, Heavy. 

Thousand sons only have HQ, troop, and elite new slot models.  and no other slots to account for. I wouldn't be shocked to see A fast slot of some kind at the very least. to bring us "in line" with the Death guard release if their release is actually that big. 100% speculation but frankly its a logical assertion and a gap that could be filled. 

Plenty of little things they could do just with giving us army tactics, relics, and stratagems that would more then make up for the lack of certain slot options. (Dreadnoughts that are not psychic gain "all is dust" rule for example as it would make sense thematically, and dreadnoughts get an extra "may be psychic" upgrade to account for Sorcerers that were placed in dreadnoughts)