Vanguard veteran loadout? Help me!

[Kimbo]

Hi all! As ive started my new life as a raven...I need some VV'S....The question is...

 

How many in a squad? And is 10 a good number for 2k games?

 

What loadout do you prefer and why?

 

I dont really care for it to be fluffy...I want something thats scary!

 

Thank you in advance! Kimbo

[SanguinaryGuardsman]

This is pretty straightforward in terms of efficiency.  

 

If you need them to kill hordes... 10 man squad with dual claws or chainswords or a mix of some sort.  

If you need them to kill standard 10 man inf squads... 5 man with all claws.

If you need them to kill vehicles or monsters.... 5 man with TH/SS.

 

Any of other assortment of weapon options is purely fluff and less efficient.  The only reason to take power swords/axes/maces or pistols is if you are tight on points and need a "good enough" solution.  

 

"Good Enough" options.... maybe.

 

vs. Hordes... 10 man/bolt pistol+chainsword or dual chainsword if that gives 1 extra attack.  Not sure about this rules wise.

vs MEQ squads... power sword/bolt pistol.  Not as efficient as claws but you will carve up other marines for cheaper than claws.

vs TEQ squads... power fist/bolt pistol.  Fists are now only 12 points.  Should be an ok option but strictly worse than hammers for killing power.  However if you use this against really nasty stuff like Custodes, bad things will happen to you even if you charge. 

vs Vehicles... same as above.  Probably best to not go with 2nd best using Vanguard Vets.  

[Kimbo]

Ok! Thanks man...I love the claws...and the player i face the most plays conscript blobs!

 

I got 10x atm..

 

5x with th+ss and 5x with dw claws? Or should i always go for 10 man for the hordes?

[Kimbo]

Abit of topic...im looking to make a flying detachment...1x stormraven and 2x storm talons.

 

Looks cool...but i have 0 xp with the talons..do they work well? Or points better spent elsewhere?

[Race Bannon]

There is a thread on this subject which is packed with suggestions ^_^ Edited July 30, 2017 by Race Bannon

[SanguinaryGuardsman]

Ok! Thanks man...I love the claws...and the player i face the most plays conscript blobs!

 

I got 10x atm..

 

5x with th+ss and 5x with dw claws? Or should i always go for 10 man for the hordes?

Regarding hordes, lets take the iconic example  

30 ork boys.  If you have 5 vets with claws and charge this.  You are going have 16 attacks?  3 per vet... 4 for the sarge.  You hit on 12 and wound on 9ish?  Then the 21 boys hit back, and you die.  This assumes you didnt lose anyone in overwatch which is very likely if they have 30 boys.  

 

10 Vets with claws vs 30 boys... 31 attacks... 21 hits, 14 wounds.  Then they hit back and you should lose around 5-6 which is enough for you stick around for another turn of fighting.  Since your squad of 10 vets with claws costs north of 300 points and 30 boys is like 180... this result is awful for you.  Maybe in the context of the rest of your army this is acceptable but in vacuum, vanguard vets with claws are not a good option against orks mobs.  Bottom line, dual claws is for mashing other marines,chaos marines, and anything else that is toughness 3-4 with a total of around 10-15 wounds.  Against units that have more than 20 wounds total, claws are a bit feeble.  However against shooting hordes, claws are great.  And by shooting hordes I do not mean conscripts.  I dont have experience against guard yet but I think you want to avoid attacking conscript hordes in melee.  You wont accomplish anything other than tying up your 200+ point squad in a sea of worthless conscripts.  This is what IG players want.  If you cant resist plunging into a see of future corpses... dual chainsword is probably best.  You get to slaughter guardsmen en masse without paying too much.

[Claws and Effect]

You shouldn't be sending Vanguard into a 30 deep mob of Ork boys in the first place. A couple full squads of regular assault squads would be more efficient.

 

Vanguard are better for taking on smaller units of slightly tougher things.

[Alcyon]

More effective maybe but more efficient, I dunno. I think that'd be at least the same or equal in points cost. If your target is Shoota Boyz or Termagaunts or something I could maybe be convinced that full-size Assault Squads are a good option, but Vanguards give you another attack and better Ld for maybe a couple points each per model? And they can still be tarpitted to some degree or overwhelmed by sheer weight of attacks. I'm currently looking into IG mortar squads or Stormtalons as options against these.

[Timur]

I use a 150pt Vanguard squad w/ JP & melta bombs, 2x chainsword & Storm Shield, 2x plasma pistol & power axe, w/ TH/SS sarge.  Covers all the bases and is resilient w/ 3++ wound allocation shenanigans.

 

This is a counter-charge unit.  They help captain or dreadnoughts in CC.  Go after deepstrikers.  I also use their fly and fall back to block and screw with opponents charges against my main forces. 

 

Big mobs get shot, not charged if I can help it.