Intercessors, loadouts and tactical value

[Silas7]

My plans once I finish building the Dark imperium models and pick up a new squad is to have three teams. Two will pack the normal bolt rifles and play the objective game while the third will go with auto bolt rifles and be more mobile.

 

Of course all sergeants will get power swords because why not.

 

All except SW and BA sergeants you mean

[Lemondish]

My plans once I finish building the Dark imperium models and pick up a new squad is to have three teams. Two will pack the normal bolt rifles and play the objective game while the third will go with auto bolt rifles and be more mobile.

 

Of course all sergeants will get power swords because why not.

The options don't exist in the Dark Imperium box, right?

[chapter master 454]

 

My plans once I finish building the Dark imperium models and pick up a new squad is to have three teams. Two will pack the normal bolt rifles and play the objective game while the third will go with auto bolt rifles and be more mobile.

 

Of course all sergeants will get power swords because why not.

The options don't exist in the Dark Imperium box, right?

 

 

Yep because only ultramarines get all the options! (but seriously. I understand there is some paperwork and such going on but how hard is it for rule makers and model makers and mold makers to communicate? Seriously)

[Gen.Steiner]

I think that I'm going to leave the Stalker bolters out, and run with two units of Bolt Rifles and one of Autobolters. If it transpires that I could really use those Stalkers, I'll get some more, but frankly the flexibility and statistical power of the BR and ABR win out for me.

As for power swords... maaaaybe. But probably not.

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

The Stalker looks good on paper but one shot and S4 not worth it to me. I like the other two guns since they support mobility.

[chapter master 454]

The Stalker looks good on paper but one shot and S4 not worth it to me. I like the other two guns since they support mobility.

 

Don't knock AP2 (screw it, I am done putting in the - for AP. GW could of just made the rule for AP say 'subtract the AP of the weapon from the saving roll), while it is certainly not mobile or meant for spam armies, stalker rounds are pretty potent even against armoured targets like tanks. Bar land raider level of toughness, most tanks get wounded on 5 then save on 5 (or worse) from stalker rounds and while they aren't going to be de facto death of the target, being able to quite reliably plink wounds is a nice ability they have.

 

Something that I find interesting is that the difference between 1 and 2 in a lot of games is huge. In this case, it is the difference between making MEQs roll 4s or 5s for saves. While not mobile they are hard hitting rifles. Fair enough if you are the run and gun guy but I do see some great value in the stalker rifle.

[Silas7]

Especially if your unlucky when it comes to hitting and wounding, the higher ap helps pin down the rolls that do break through.

[Alcyon]

 

Don't knock AP2, while it is certainly not mobile or meant for spam armies, stalker rounds are pretty potent even against armoured targets like tanks. Bar land raider level of toughness, most tanks get wounded on 5 then save on 5 (or worse) from stalker rounds and while they aren't going to be de facto death of the target, being able to quite reliably plink wounds is a nice ability they have.

 

Something that I find interesting is that the difference between 1 and 2 in a lot of games is huge. In this case, it is the difference between making MEQs roll 4s or 5s for saves. While not mobile they are hard hitting rifles. Fair enough if you are the run and gun guy but I do see some great value in the stalker rifle.

 

I think the Mathhammer is pretty relevant here. 5 shots at S4 AP2 does 0.74 unsaved wounds vs. a Rhino. 10 shots at AP1 does 1.11. Vs MEQ you're looking at 1.11 wounds for the Stalker vs. 1.67 for two shots at S4 AP1. So the regular Bolt Rifle's volume of shots at 15" range completely outweighs the benefit of +1 AP.

 

Just for giggles, 5 Sniper Rifles at the same range does 0.37 unsaved wounds vs. a Rhino and 0.556 wounds to MEQ, and the price of Scouts w/ Sniper Rifles is about 1/3 of an Intercessor I believe. Personally if I'm 36" out I don't expect anti-infantry fire (which Primaris' 2 wounds and 3+ save are better against), so I would rather run the far cheaper Scouts who can do the same or similar job. It's going to be Bolt Rifles for me on my Intercessors for sure, and in some cases ABRs but that'll likely be rare — I don't expect to have any buffing characters with my Troops and the -1 to hit when Advancing is a big hurt.

[Tyberos the Red Wake]

 I think the Mathhammer is pretty relevant here. 5 shots at S4 AP2 does 0.74 unsaved wounds vs. a Rhino. 10 shots at AP1 does 1.11. Vs MEQ you're looking at 1.11 wounds for the Stalker vs. 1.67 for two shots at S4 AP1. So the regular Bolt Rifle's volume of shots at 15" range completely outweighs the benefit of +1 AP.

 

It also means if you roll hot, you have a much higher damage potential. This is why I not only consider the average wounds per weapon, but also the maximum damage ceiling. D6 weapons are way too good when you roll a 6.

[Death Dealer 101]

Every way you cut it, the stalker is not significantly better enough than the bolt rifle for an increase of 2 points. The extra 6" range is the only reason it can be good and that prob isn't worth 2 points considering the 'heavy' type limiting movement somewhat.

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

Points add up quick if you're running mostly Primaris Marine units... otherwise the point that stalker pattern bolters wound wound most vehicles and monsters on a 5+ is pretty good, only point of contention for me is the relatively low number of shots. I could see keeping them tucked away safe then try to pick off heavily damaged enemy units later in the game. Edited August 22, 2017 by Black Orange

[Alcyon]

I do my best not to shoot anything at anything it'll only wound 33% of the time, especially when a full unit can only hope to inflict less than a single wound on average. I would rather accept that my Intercessors' role is anti-infantry and let them do their best at that than try to push them into service shooting things they need AP2 to interact with.

 

And I'd want to bring my units to bear immediately rather than hold them back until later in the game — the less concentrated your fire is, the more return fire you'll suffer throughout the game. But that's just my personal approach, I'm not a fan of the Stalker.

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

If the Stalker was S5 it would be really good .

[Alcyon]

I do kind of wonder why bolters in general aren't S5 given that they explode, but for Stalkers especially yeah I would say they should be S5.

[UnkyHamHam]

Do you guys put your Aux Grenade Launcher on your Sergeant or on another model? I can't think of a reason not to put it on the Sarge.

[Lemondish]

Do you guys put your Aux Grenade Launcher on your Sergeant or on another model? I can't think of a reason not to put it on the Sarge.

 

Nor can I. Let's you keep that option until the very end, which is nice. 

[Kingleir]

Will be running 4 squads with my fellblade, 2 BR, 2 ABR, to go with 1 of each Hellblasters and a squad of Aggressors. The RF squads go with an ancient while the AS squads go with a lieutenant. Captain and Aggressors likely SftS, along with whatever I think is needed to clear a fire lane for the fellblade.

[the jeske]

 

 I think the Mathhammer is pretty relevant here. 5 shots at S4 AP2 does 0.74 unsaved wounds vs. a Rhino. 10 shots at AP1 does 1.11. Vs MEQ you're looking at 1.11 wounds for the Stalker vs. 1.67 for two shots at S4 AP1. So the regular Bolt Rifle's volume of shots at 15" range completely outweighs the benefit of +1 AP.

 

It also means if you roll hot, you have a much higher damage potential. This is why I not only consider the average wounds per weapon, but also the maximum damage ceiling. D6 weapons are way too good when you roll a 6.

 

And lose you games if you roll a 1-2, while having to have to remove a big thing from an objective or bottleneck. Plus if there are units that can do the same for less points, no is stoping people from lets say runing 2 units of sniper scouts and a tactical with a plasm/combi plas. Or some razorbacks.

 

Plus if you are facing stuff with multiple wounds then it is never 1 thing. no one would run a single/duo razorbacks or knights. There is going to be 4-6 of those, and then it means that potential extra wounds get absorbed anyway. And the chance to be sure to delete one unit per turn drops. Add to that the primaris vunerablity to multi wound causing weapons[as in points cost vs what happens if one does die],and runing them as something else then anti chaff/anti light infantry stops being valid. In a casual setting of course.

[Dracos]

Apologies for the threadomancy but I have an idea that is relevant and creating a new thread seemed redundant.

 

I plan on running a Primaris only army (Chapter yet undefined). The core of that army will be built a round the Intercessor. I have two 10 man boxes on order at the LGS. I already purchase a squad (10) of Hellblasters and Reivers.

 

I plan on taking an idea from my days of WFB when I played Empire. The thought is to use a 5 Marine squad of Hellblaster as a "detachment" to run with the Intercessors. I put a heavy emphasis on tactical flexibility versus relying on gimmick rules (not that I won't try and get the best out of them also).

 

This, let's call it a Chapter pseudo-tactic, that simulates the larger squads Black Templar and Space Wolves run. I'm knocking around a few different ideas on how to equip each unit and how to get the best synergy out this combination of units. Initial thoughts are a gunline that advances, maybe even using leapfrog maneuvering and controlling the middle of the field. (Also looking at a plan on developing a similar technique for Rievers and Inceptors but that's another discussion)

 

Any thoughts on best combination of weapons for a "unit" of Hell-Intercessors or ideas about this whole approach is appreciated.

Edited January 8, 2018 by Inquisitor Dracos