8th Edition Raven List

[Cordova]

So, with this new codex and the fun it brings to the table, I thought I would drag myself from the shadows of lurking and ask a few questions/see if we can all band some thoughts or ideas from the new book that have helped us or that work...(plus it gives me something to post about while I endeavour to sort all my images out - thanks Photobucket).

 

For me, and most of you I guess, Strike from the Shadows is the big thing...

 

My list in 7th was largely built around a Demi-Company, SSKT and RAG, sometimes with different allies or whatever to mix it up but, fundamentally the same core. Largely due to me being the slowest (read: least motivated) painter in the world and the fact I like to use painted models, but also because I believe that a good core represents the Codex adherence that there should be... That said, the Primaris and new bits n bobs makes 8th a bit of a challenge as I can't afford all that stuff - even at 2,000. As a result, I have spent far too much time re-jigging my lists so they both fit the lore of my chapter, and the new bits.  I thought I'd share my ideas here and maybe we can all then build on it with units to swap in/out to see what we discover...

 

Anyway, on with it:

 

Battalion:

Shrike

(Because, obviously)

 

Lieutenant

(Sits with the Devs. They chuck out enough shots, but rolling 1 is sickening when trying to bring something down.)

 

Tactical Marines x5 with Plasma gun - Heavy Bolter Razorback

Tactical Marines x5 with Plasma gun - Heavy Bolter Razorback

Tactical Marines x5 with Meltagun

(Grunts that always do work - people seem to look at the big stuff more nowadays. The Razorbacks are there as HBs are underrated in my opinion.)

 

Devastator Squad x4 Lascannon

Devastator Squad x4 Lascannon

(Because Lascannons)

 

Vanguard Veterans with Jump Packs x1 Storm Shield, x3 Power Swords, x2 Power Axes

Vanguard Veterans with Jump Packs x1 Storm Shield, x3 Power Swords, x2 Power Axes

(Fairly cheap comparatively, but put the hurt on if they make CC)

 

Assault Marines x5 with x1 Flamer

Assault Marines x5 with x1 Flamer

(These generally lurk in my back field to speed bump threats that emerge.)

 

Battalion 2:

Captain

(Sits with Hellblasters...)

Lieutenant

(As above)

 

Scouts x5 with x1 Heavy Bolter

Scouts x5 with x1 Heavy Bolter

Scouts x5 with x1 Heavy Bolter

(Always solid. Hide in some bushes and generally force an opponent to use a turn shooting them or be harrassed continually)

 

Intercessors x5 with x5 Stalker Bolter

(Extra range means they can sit in the -1 bubble and be a pain again...)

 

Hellblaster with x5 Heavy Plasma Incinerator

(Extra range and the rerolls make these nasty)

 

That leaves me 24 points of faffing...

 

The general gist of the list is to give 9 CPs that I can use to SFTS some key units:

Shrike + 1 VV squad

1-2 Tactical Squads (Question: If they embark on their RB, can they SFTS in it??)

Hellblasters

 

I operate on the same principles I always have - small units with redundancies built in - my opponent has to target a small squad and kill it before moving on. It gives me a strong backfield and mid range irritation that they have to get through...Shrike and the VV can then mess about with his backfield etc...

 

So, any thoughts or successes for this - can I tweak it in your opinions?

 

[Damo1701]

SftS has to be Infantry, unfortunately.  So, no embarked transports popping out from behind a tree...

 

List looks great, though, I do wonder what points you are playing at, as I can barely field a medium-sized detachment...

[Claws and Effect]

Looks like 2k. He appears to have kept his units cheap.

[Alcyon]

The amount of Heavy Bolters certainly keeps things cheap. Don't forget the Hellfire Shells stratagem, with so many Heavy Bolters you'll probably want to use it every turn for that d3 Mortal Wounds.

 

I think you simply have so many models and thus so many guns that you should have a fair shot, even if each unit individually seems pretty weak to me. I would worry about the lifespan of your Razorbacks, they're the only two tanks in your army and will suck in your opponent's A/T like a magnet. I have built my list with zero vehicles for this reason and because it better takes advantage of SftS and our CT. JP troops give us mobility and SftS lets us put static units in the ideal position to start with.

 

If it were me, and I had a budget, I would replace your Tacticals with Intercessors since they can SftS where they need to be and it'll probably be in 15-30" Bolter range anyway. I'd give the Vanguards Thunder Hammers as if you're paying for Storm Shields anyway they're going to be pretty survivable, and the regular Power Weapons are far worse than LCs (which don't give you an invulnerable save) or TH (which can kill tanks, MCs, characters, etc. etc.) I'd probably cut the Assault Marines to make those changes as I don't think you want speedbumps (unless they're scouts?) — we can't out-guard a Guard or Tyranid army, I don't think we can afford to throw troops into the meat grinder to whittle down enemy blobs by attrition. With the Fall Back rules now Assault Squads don't get to tie enemies up in combat and protect themselves from shooting nearly as well, and they are basically only armed with 3-shot Bolt Pistols.

[Cordova]

It is 2K, but I also forgot the MC bolters on the Cap etc...only leaving 15 points...

 

I have taken swords etc purely for two reasons: a) I don't have a gajillion LCs b) I tried to keep points costs cheap everywhere and the 5 powerweapons haven't really let me down yet. As it is only a 5 man squad, I generally pick squishier targets that I can use combat to drag into LOS of bigger guns in case they do run away etc.

 

I like the Razorbacks for movement purposes, but I could drop them and a Tac squad, replace them with another Intercessor and Combiweapon up my Tactical sergeant.  That way I have another Stalker Intercessor squad that can lurk in the backfield and SFTS the tacticals into place...

[Cordova]

Apologies for double post etc, but it made more sense than starting a whole new post...

 

So, after playing a smaller points game with some Primaris, I wasn't overly swung by them - although I was facing some cheesy Eldar nonsense...

So I have been thinking about the core of my force and how to tweak it.

 

The following is a largely solid core (although can obviously be fiddled with):

 

 

+++ Dark Eagles  [87 PL, 1436pts] +++

++ Battalion Detachment +3CP (Imperium - Space Marines) [46 PL, 642pts] ++

+ HQ +

Kayvaan Shrike [8 PL, 150pts]

Lieutenants [4 PL, 63pts]
Lieutenant: Chainsword, Master-crafted boltgun

+ Troops +

Scout Squad [6 PL, 65pts]
Scout Sergeant: Bolt pistol, Boltgun
3x Scout w/Boltgun
Scout w/Heavy Weapon: Heavy bolter

Scout Squad [6 PL, 65pts]
Scout Sergeant: Bolt pistol, Boltgun
3x Scout w/Boltgun
Scout w/Heavy Weapon: Heavy bolter

Scout Squad [6 PL, 65pts]
Scout Sergeant: Bolt pistol, Boltgun
3x Scout w/Boltgun
Scout w/Heavy Weapon: Heavy bolter

+ Elites +

Vanguard Veteran Squad [8 PL, 117pts]: Jump Pack
Space Marine Veteran: Bolt pistol, Power sword
Space Marine Veteran: Bolt pistol, Power axe
Space Marine Veteran: Bolt pistol, Power axe
Space Marine Veteran: Bolt pistol, Power sword
Veteran Sergeant: Power sword, Storm shield

Vanguard Veteran Squad [8 PL, 117pts]: Jump Pack
Space Marine Veteran: Bolt pistol, Power sword
Space Marine Veteran: Bolt pistol, Power axe
Space Marine Veteran: Bolt pistol, Power axe
Space Marine Veteran: Bolt pistol, Power sword
Veteran Sergeant: Power sword, Storm shield

++ Battalion Detachment +3CP (Imperium - Space Marines) [41 PL, 794pts] ++

+ No Force Org Slot +

**Chapter Selection**: Raven Guard

+ HQ +

Captain [6 PL, 114pts]: Bolt pistol, Jump Pack, Relic blade

Lieutenants [4 PL, 63pts]
Lieutenant: Chainsword, Master-crafted boltgun

+ Troops +

Tactical Squad [5 PL, 93pts]
3x Space Marine
Space Marine Sergeant: Chainsword, Combi-plasma
Space Marine w/Special Weapon: Plasma gun

Tactical Squad [5 PL, 93pts]
3x Space Marine
Space Marine Sergeant: Chainsword, Combi-plasma
Space Marine w/Special Weapon: Plasma gun

Tactical Squad [5 PL, 101pts]
3x Space Marine
Space Marine Sergeant: Chainsword, Combi-melta
Space Marine w/Special Weapon: Meltagun

+ Heavy Support +

Devastator Squad [8 PL, 165pts]
Space Marine Sergeant: Bolt pistol, Boltgun
Space Marine w/Heavy Weapon: Lascannon
Space Marine w/Heavy Weapon: Lascannon
Space Marine w/Heavy Weapon: Lascannon
Space Marine w/Heavy Weapon: Lascannon

Devastator Squad [8 PL, 165pts]
Space Marine Sergeant: Bolt pistol, Boltgun
Space Marine w/Heavy Weapon: Lascannon
Space Marine w/Heavy Weapon: Lascannon
Space Marine w/Heavy Weapon: Lascannon
Space Marine w/Heavy Weapon: Lascannon
 

 

So the two Lieutenants lurk with the Devs and help me ensure I don't fluff the wound rolls as this is my X-Men level mutant skill.

 

I was thinking of dropping in a Stormraven and some other bits - which is where help from you guys would be appreciated.

 

My other question is the following: What is your preference with Shrike? I have used him to basically sit and grant lovely rerolls, and to charge, where he carves dudes up...the list above uses the other Captain as my warlord, so he can charge in and if he dies, I don't lose all the rerolls - SftS means that Shrike's charge reroll isn't as needed...  Thoughts?

 

 

[duz_]

Are your VV load outs fixed?

They certainly can be optimized, but points could be an issue

Theres plenty of threads lying around with suggestions for them

Personally I'd like to see some more storm shields in them

 

Shrikes use for me depends on opponent, if they're squishy he'll be on the frontline charging, if they're close combat monsters he'll be hanging back

 

Your list also lacks mobility, which is less of an issue in Eternal War, but you will suffer in Maelstrom

You'll need some transports, bikes or speeders

[Alcyon]

Overall I think you have far more Troops choices than you need. You have six squads which can't move very fast and have weak short range weapons, and that is a full 1/3rd of your army. You might really struggle to do damage to important targets, and though you can put some solid firepower into enemy infantry, they can do the same right back to you - and will likely be better optimized to do it (spending less points.)

 

The Devastators and Vanguards are solid, and the Hellblasters in your original list also put out a lot of useful firepower for their points (though I think the 

Heavy version is overkill, if you have SftS you can put them in 15" range no problem.) I think you can run a more robust and smaller set of Troops, like Intercessors or a bunch of inexpensive Scouts, and then use the leftover points to create units that will be capable of either presenting a serious threat to parts of your opponent's army, or rapidly taking and holding objectives as you draw new cards.

[Cordova]

Thanks for the replies guys.  I have only played a few games of 8th due to my usual group moving away etc and the games I have played have basically been our 7th edition lists just transported across - so having some feedback from more people is appreciated.

 

 

Are your VV load outs fixed?
They certainly can be optimized, but points could be an issue
Theres plenty of threads lying around with suggestions for them
Personally I'd like to see some more storm shields in them

Shrikes use for me depends on opponent, if they're squishy he'll be on the frontline charging, if they're close combat monsters he'll be hanging back

Your list also lacks mobility, which is less of an issue in Eternal War, but you will suffer in Maelstrom
You'll need some transports, bikes or speeders

 

They're only fixed as I have stuck arms on, but I have some storm shields.  Because there's only 5 of them in each squad, I only tend to go for softer targets hence not using the TH/SS combo that is more common.

 

I did originally have some Razorbacks but they are so expensive in this edition (and my LasPlas are dead) that I cut them to free more points for other options. I have also got some smaller ASM squads that I usually use purely as fast moving backfield cover - these generally help more in Maelstrom. I don't tend to like bikers, but I get how they can be useful.

 

Also, the SftS I generally use to park on as many objectives as I can - this can help with the Maelstrom.

 

 

Overall I think you have far more Troops choices than you need. You have six squads which can't move very fast and have weak short range weapons, and that is a full 1/3rd of your army. You might really struggle to do damage to important targets, and though you can put some solid firepower into enemy infantry, they can do the same right back to you - and will likely be better optimized to do it (spending less points.)

 

The Devastators and Vanguards are solid, and the Hellblasters in your original list also put out a lot of useful firepower for their points (though I think the 

Heavy version is overkill, if you have SftS you can put them in 15" range no problem.) I think you can run a more robust and smaller set of Troops, like Intercessors or a bunch of inexpensive Scouts, and then use the leftover points to create units that will be capable of either presenting a serious threat to parts of your opponent's army, or rapidly taking and holding objectives as you draw new cards.

 

I have the troops as this gives me 2 battalions and the CP that come with it. I have found the CP to be super useful and fit my playstyle more. 

I generally have a backline and then rely on Scouts (or suchlike) to mess up opponent's ideas and deployment whilst other units (Tacs in transports/jump units) get involved.

 

I could drop the melta guys (they're a hangover from 7th, where they were my trusty go-to unit of problem solving) for some Intercessors, and one of the Scouts for some Stalker Intercessors - they can SftS into place and have essentially the same role. 

 

Hellblasters could come back into the fold - then I either have Shrike or the Captain to help them avoid the overcharge if I need to use it.

 

I have a Stormraven at the ready too - perhaps bringing him back into the list, maybe carrying something potent?