Quick question

[lonewolf81]

Can we use the new space marine stratagem to make the wolf lord on bike a chapter master in order to reroll hits with friendly spacewolf models around him, as i read it we can what do you guys think? 

[Karhedron]

I think you can only use those Stratagems if you are playing codex astartes. Once you go for BAs, DAs or SWs, you lose access to the generic stuff. They specifically mention that we don't get "defenders of humanity".

 

That is just my take though and I could be wrong on that.

[lonewolf81]

All space marines are "ADEPTUS ASTARTES" keyword (including spacewolves) and you also have the "CAPTAIN" keyword from captain on the bike who replaces wolf lord on bike.

 

The codex says the following:

 

"If your army is Battle-forged and includes any Space Marines Detachments (excluding Auxiliary Support Detachments), you have access to the Stratagems shown here, and can spend Command Points to activate them. These reflect the unique strategies used by the Adeptus Astartes on the battlefield.

 

the stratagem says the following:

 

"Use this Stratagem before the battle. Select an ADEPTUS ASTARTES Captain in your army. Replace this model’s CAPTAIN keyword with Chapter Master and replace his Rites of Battle ability with the following ability: ‘CHAPTER MASTER: You can re-roll any failed hit rolls for friendly units within 6" of this model.’ You can only use this Stratagem once and your army cannot include two CHAPTER MASTERS from the same Chapter".

 

all in all 

 

The chapter specific stratagems require "ultramarines" keyword , "salamanders" keyword e.t.c. obviously we dont get those but the generic ones why not?

Edited August 1, 2017 by lonewolf81

[Spartan601]

In the Sons of the Primarch section of the Codex (p. 194), it specifically states that other Space Marine Chapters cannot make use of any of the rules or abilities listed in that section, which consists of Chapter Tactics, Stratagems, Warlord Traits, Psychic Disciplines, Relics and Tactical Objectives.

 

Sadly, we have to be patient until the release of our own Codex.

[Valerian]

Good find. Looks that way.

[Treville]

I assume we are also stuck with the index points cost for Wargear? No half priced power fists or reduced cost thunder hammers until our dex is released

[TheWolfLord]

All space marines are "ADEPTUS ASTARTES" keyword (including spacewolves) and you also have the "CAPTAIN" keyword from captain on the bike who replaces wolf lord on bike.

 

The codex says the following:

 

"If your army is Battle-forged and includes any Space Marines Detachments (excluding Auxiliary Support Detachments), you have access to the Stratagems shown here, and can spend Command Points to activate them. These reflect the unique strategies used by the Adeptus Astartes on the battlefield.

 

the stratagem says the following:

 

"Use this Stratagem before the battle. Select an ADEPTUS ASTARTES Captain in your army. Replace this model’s CAPTAIN keyword with Chapter Master and replace his Rites of Battle ability with the following ability: ‘CHAPTER MASTER: You can re-roll any failed hit rolls for friendly units within 6" of this model.’ You can only use this Stratagem once and your army cannot include two CHAPTER MASTERS from the same Chapter".

 

all in all 

 

The chapter specific stratagems require "ultramarines" keyword , "salamanders" keyword e.t.c. obviously we dont get those but the generic ones why not?

We aren't Space Marines, we are Adeptus Astartes and Space Wolves. The only Adeptus Astartes classed as Space Marines within the rules are those from Codex Space Marines

[Karhedron]

I assume we are also stuck with the index points cost for Wargear? No half priced power fists or reduced cost thunder hammers until our dex is released

No, I think the FAQ said that we do use the reduced points costs where applicable. (trying to find the reference).

[Treville]

 

I assume we are also stuck with the index points cost for Wargear? No half priced power fists or reduced cost thunder hammers until our dex is released

No, I think the FAQ said that we do use the reduced points costs where applicable. (trying to find the reference).

 

 

It's finding the references that I'm struggling with at the moment.

 

Between FAQs, Facebook answers, Spotlights, and Designers Commentary its hard to keep track of who said what, when, and how official it is.

 

I know they said if the codex doesn't have a unit option (say characters on bikes) you use the index entry. I think they mentioned Dreadnought weapon options in the same piece, but finding the actual ruling is beyond me. 

[Valerian]

 

I assume we are also stuck with the index points cost for Wargear? No half priced power fists or reduced cost thunder hammers until our dex is released

No, I think the FAQ said that we do use the reduced points costs where applicable. (trying to find the reference).

 

 

No.  The FAQ didn't say that, that I'm aware of.  If you find something then please do post it, but otherwise, we're stuck with Index prices for our units, since the data sheets for our units come in the Index.

[Karhedron]

 

I assume we are also stuck with the index points cost for Wargear? No half priced power fists or reduced cost thunder hammers until our dex is released

No, I think the FAQ said that we do use the reduced points costs where applicable. (trying to find the reference).

 

I have found the post I was looking for!

 

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2017/07/05/codexes-your-questions-answered-july-5gw-homepage-post-2/

There are a few options that are missing in the codex that appear in the index: why is that? Does that mean I can’t use these models in my army anymore?

While the indexes are designed to cover a long history of miniatures, the codexes are designed to give you rules for the current Warhammer 40,000 range.

 

There are a few options in the indexes for some Characters and vehicles that are no longer represented in the Citadel range – certain Dreadnought weapons that don’t come in the box, or some characters on bikes, for example. Don’t worry though, you can still use all of these in your games if you have these older models. In these instances, use the datasheet from the index, and the most recent points published for that model and its weapons (currently, also in the index).

Now this is talking about obsolete models rather than the general case but it does make it clear that you can use the data sheets from the Index with the points cost from a more recent Codex. Now it is only talking about the specific case of obsolete models but I don't see why an obsolete model would use the updated points costs while a current one would have to stick with the older ones.

[TheWolfLord]

 

 

I assume we are also stuck with the index points cost for Wargear? No half priced power fists or reduced cost thunder hammers until our dex is released

No, I think the FAQ said that we do use the reduced points costs where applicable. (trying to find the reference).

I have found the post I was looking for!https://www.warhammer-community.com/2017/07/05/codexes-your-questions-answered-july-5gw-homepage-post-2/

There are a few options that are missing in the codex that appear in the index: why is that? Does that mean I can’t use these models in my army anymore?While the indexes are designed to cover a long history of miniatures, the codexes are designed to give you rules for the current Warhammer 40,000 range.There are a few options in the indexes for some Characters and vehicles that are no longer represented in the Citadel range – certain Dreadnought weapons that don’t come in the box, or some characters on bikes, for example. Don’t worry though, you can still use all of these in your games if you have these older models. In these instances, use the datasheet from the index, and the most recent points published for that model and its weapons (currently, also in the index).

Now this is talking about obsolete models rather than the general case but it does make it clear that you can use the data sheets from the Index with the points cost from a more recent Codex. Now it is only talking about the specific case of obsolete models but I don't see why an obsolete model would use the updated points costs while a current one would have to stick with the older ones.

Only if the datasheet in the Index is the current one and you would then be forced to use the wargear lists and relevant points cost from the Index.

 

Equally as Space Wolves we use the Space Wolves wargear list and are told to refer to the datasheets in the Index for generic Space Marine units and wargear.

 

We aren't given permission at anytime to reference the Space Marine Codex so therefore we can't use the points values in that Codex.

 

Feel free to bring it up on the Facebook page and ask for an FAQ but I can't see that changing.

[Valerian]

Definitely agreed with TheWolfLord. There is nothing in that statement giving you permission to use gear/unit prices from the new Codex Space Marines. It is specifically only referencing how you can continue using older discontinued models by referencing the Index, even after your Faction's new codex is released , which ours hasn't been, by the way.

[Rune Priest Jbickb]

In fact elsewhere I the article tgey specifically state that space wolves, grey knights, blood angels and dark angels use the index ones until codex release. (Paragraph about sw ba da not needing to buy the codex)

 

Fortunately I expect the same reductions and maybe more but as of now we do not get them.

[Rift Blade]

Sorry to be slightly off topic but didn't feel this needed it's own thread. Trying to get back into the hobby so to get playing Wolves, besides the rule book, do I need the Index Imperium I, the Index & the new Adeptus Astartes codex or just the Adeptus Astartes codex? Thanks in advance for any answers.

[Chaos Lord Tom]

Hi welcome back ti the hobby. SW will have s specific codex that wasn't issued yet. In the mean time you can buy the index imperium 1 for SW datasheets.

 

We do not have any ETA for the codex.

[Rift Blade]

Thanks for the reply & good to know.

[Valerian]

Yep, just need the Rules and the first Imperium Index for now, and the Index for Forge World if you want to use any of their stuff (but that's not required).  We'll get our own standalone codex eventually, as always.

 

V

[Rift Blade]

Thanks as well Valerian. Yeah. The FW Index was a given. I've been watching the other thread on it's review crossing my fingers that the Leviathan Dread would be in it. Looking at ordering the FW Index, a Leviathan with some arms and some SW HH torsos to have some new bits for later when I'll actually have some time to get back into things. Not going to complain ab out the wait for our Codex either. Still remember the wait from 3rd to 5th. LOL!!!!!